I remember when massive protests took place in San Francisco denouncing the Iranian regime and demanding basic human rights for women and political activists. Where are those protesters now?
Where are the NGO astroturfed protests designed to make it look like women around the world are suffering when Republicans are in charge? Is that your question?
Well if they are like the inept State Department & Pentagon.... this from Tablet quoting a WSJ article, "...showed that Malley had helped to infiltrate an Iranian agent of influence named Ariane Tabatabai into some of the most sensitive positions in the U.S. government—first at the State Department and now the Pentagon, where she has been serving as chief of staff for the assistant secretary of defense for special operations, Christopher Maier." Yeah, let's try talking to Iran, give them shit piles of money, and then beg them not to go nuclear - it will all work out...
1979? You mean the 1950s when the CIA overthrew the democratically elected leader so western oil companies could retain control of Iranian oil. That ushered in the radicals. The CIA is a fascist Wall Street army. Maybe death to the CIA?
I think the failures of a culture belong to it alone; finger pointing and excuse making aren't convincing. Surely after 50 years of this, the world might stop waiting for the "real" Iran to emerge. This must be it.
And the CIA planned the coup d’etat in 2020. And the J6 afterparty. Their specialty is overthrowing governments. They did it to us in 2020 with Covid and the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax.
BFF. Carter wanted to let him into the US. That confirmed that Pahlavi was a US CIA stooge. Raygun simply told the douche bag idiots holding American hostage they had limited time to release them.
The WH wants no more endless wars or the war to end all wars. The Palestinian people have to be absorbed by Egypt and Jordan and Saudi Arabia or maybe they can come to the New World and enter the US through the southern border - just kidding although it's not funny..
There already was almost a two state solution with a Palestinian Authority. Clearly Iran, Yemen and Hezbollah have to be defeated by the Arabic people united to Israel and U.S. under 21st c capitalism.
The Saudi Arab, Egyptian and Jordanian leaders' desire entrance on to the playing field of.world powers. They see that they are better off, that is to say that those with power can maintain power when the people don't revolt and their people don't revolt when they can earn a living and have their families live in peace with a little piece of the pie.
Iran is Persia. I don't know if Yemen and Qatar are Arab or just Islamists of some other mixed Middle East races that succumbed to religious excuses for being losers destined to wage war against capitalist winners.
Sharia Law allowed by French Govt for North African Moslems in France. Appeasement by the Freedom Passionate Fremch for the sins of colonial West Africa. How's that working out for them?
They are busily attending weeks-long diversity and inclusion workshops and assigning blame for everything wrong in the world on cisgender white men. And the cisgender white women nod along in utter fear.
Excellent idea! All our other CIA coups have been fabulously successful, especially the one that returned Reza Shah Pahlavi to power in Iran in 1953. That one turned out great.
Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was not deposed by Mosaddegh. And, in fact, the Shah's reign worked out nicely for Iran until he was knifed in the back by Carter. The theocrat tyrants who are behind significant terrorism are that legacy.
I didn't say he was. Mosaddegh was deposed by the CIA coup that returned the Shah to power. And while his reign included much modernization, it was also totalitarian and autocratic. And there was a revolution for a reason. The Shah wasn't winning any popularity contests.
Well he wasn't deposed from power. But with Mosaddegh out of the way Pahlavi's power certainly increased. I'm no fan of the CIA's meddling, which probably did more harm than good. But the Shah was a damn sight better that the Ayatollah and his kid would probably have been and even better ruler.
Did you follow the link to ‘Olivia’s Dispatch’. This is really only a comment piece, Olivia’s article has more detailed reporting. It might answer some of your questions. Perhaps you will have more questions but, it’s a starting point and maybe the commenters there will be able to help a bit more. Hope this helps!
Just replying to my own comment to say that calling this post a ‘comment piece’ is inaccurate. I’m not sure what the appropriate term is but it really serves as a means of collecting two related articles that we might’ve be interested in and introducing them. It also provides a link to Matti’s article.
As former DCI John Ratcliffe said today, after outlining the long list of things this administration has done wrong regarding Iran, "…with friends like Joe Biden, Israel doesn't need more enemies."
Wake up! This is a relatively small group of extreme Leftists. Stop burning your head in the sand by blaming it on anyone who isn’t a Democrat. It isn’t about either Party, it’s about a very well organized and funded group of people who are trying to “Fundamentally Change the US” forever and turn it into a two Class System….The Ruling Class and those that are Ruled.
We should have bomb Iran (the biggest supporter of international terrorism in the world) back to the stone age. It is a country run by Islamic murdering thugs.
I am not saying kill them all. We could bomb their infrastructure, bridges, highways, power plaints, oil fields and refineries and completely destroy their port facilities.
And when they have rebuilt them, bomb them again. Not of our presidents have had the backbone to do this. Iran through their surrogates have killed dozens, hundreds? of US citizens. We should have done this decades ago. If we bomb their infrastructure the Iranians could never export oil their biggest moneymaker and couldn't fund A-bomb technology and couldn't be the biggest supporter of international terrorism.
That can only work if we start drilling right here in the USA. We’ll have to “save the planet” by supplying oil needed to our allies once the Iranian oil fields are out of commission. The Environmentalists will have to calm down and back off until we are able to get the Muslim Extremists out of power in Iran.
That would be a challenge. A large percentage of the Iranian population are peace-loving people who want rid of their jihadist oppressors. Don’t bomb them!
A good start would be for the US to produce more oil and also stop sending money (Obama sent millions in cash) and Biden administration sent money as recent as a month ago. We also have to tell countries like China that if they buy oil from Iran, they can’t sell their products in the US without a HUGE tariff
Lack of oil production isn't the probem, lack of refineries is the problem. The US produces enough oil for domestic consumption and export, but it has to send it offshore to be refined into usable fuel.
I'm not going to insult you, but I don't understand your point. Can you connect the dots for me? Do you claim that Iran didn't fire missiles or drones into Israel? Do you not consider that an act of provocation? Do you believe that Iran had a legitimate military objective in doing it? Seriously, I'd like to follow your reasoning. Making accusations of "right wing propaganda" are just a smear, no better than how you're being treated. I'm happy to discuss or even debate but your reply was just a "hit and run."
Iran had military advisers in Syria coordinating drone and missile attacks on Israel. They have been the financial and military supporters of all their proxy’s who have been attacking Israel and breaking cease fires. Iran has showed us their entire game plan in the last 24 hours. Look at where the missals came from. Many came directly from Iran but they also came from the Houthi, Syria, Hezbollah in Lebanon and other Proxies of Iran. Iran showed us that they are the main reason Israel was attacked by their Iran/Hamas (their Proxy) on October 7th. Eventually the FREE WORLD will have to cut the head off the snake. With your thinking, it won’t be Israeli soldiers fighting the war against Extreme Islamist, it will American and all Western country soldiers doing the fighting. I don’t recall seeing any responses to you, calling you antisemitic. Maybe you’ve been saying the same things in streams regarding Ukraine. I’d call you a short sighted isolationist. I don’t mean that as a personal insult but you might take it that way. It’s your words that I’m reacting to, not you as a person.
I don't take your comment as an insult. The comments I do take as insults are those, unlike yours, that are specifically meant as personal insults. I have been called not only antisemite, but also Jew-hater in these pages. It's really quite amusing, the childish insults of those who don't have cogent arguments to put forward.
I have no rose-colored view of Iran, anymore than I do of Israel. They both kill, often indiscriminately, over religious bullshit.
I'm not an isolationist. Nor do I buy the "if we don't fight them over there, we'll have to fight them over here" nonsense that gave us Vietnam and so much more.
If you read the whole article, you will see that Iran has been provoking and attacking us for a long time. This is not a one off type of situation. Your argument ignores history. I’m not saying Iranians are bad people but their government hates the USA and Israel and its allies. That much is very clear.
We would do nothing. The ever senile Joe did nothing when our bases were attacked by Iranian surrogates. He was hiding under the kitchen table. GIs were killed and wounded. We did nothing!
I suspect your nose is so high in the air you couldn't smell a fake news story if it bit you in the behind. From Russian collusion to the Jussie Smollett hoax. Oh and do you still believe that Trump said there were good people on both sides of the tiki torch march in Charlottesville?
So, let me get this straight. When someone says something that you disagree with, you insult the person, rather than discussing the reason for the disagreement. OK. That’s your thing, I guess, but it’s not mine.
Didn't you just go right to insults with Kevin Durant? Oh wait, we know your type. Go right to insults and when you get bitten back, you whine "foul." MSNBC indeed.
Marilyn, you will find that the straight-to-insult model is very prevalent in The Free Press's comments section. I suspect you have the same thoughts as I do about people who, lacking worthwhile arguments, go straight to insults.
Another watch-out around here. If you criticize the government of Israel, you are obviously an antisemite and a Jew-hater. And if you forget, plenty of helpful people here will call you those names.
I will assume that you are sincere in believing that, as I also did.
I have never voted for Trump, and I would never vote for him. I consider him the largest short term threat to the US. So I found it easy to believe whan I was told that Trump had refused to condemn the white supremacists and instead had said there were very fine people on both sides - meaning that the white nationalists were very find people.
But then when challenged, I read the transcripts and watched the video, and found that I had been seriously misled. He absolutely did condemn neo-Nazis, white nationalists, white supremacists, the KKK, hate groups, bigotry and racism. Not once, but again and again and again.
He also made the point that there were peaceful protestors, for and against the issue of taking down Confederate statues, on both sides - as well as the bad actors on both sides which he repeatedly condemned. He did everything he could to make clear the "good people on both sides" of the issue did NOT include the violent, hateful people - more than once.
The words you quote were very deliberately taken out of context to pretend that he was supporting white nationalists etc. And I, in my anti-Trump bias, just swallowed that deception, assumed the sources on my side were trustworthy.
As much as I detest Trump, I also detest deception and manipulation. I can both oppose Trump, and support truth, at the same time. Trump has, in my opinion, a great number of defects; there's no need to invent false accusations.
Have you actually read the full transcripts for yourself? Rather than asking you to take my word for it, I want you to read both the statement and the press conference in full for yourself. Do not take my word for it. The links are below. I have also extracted some excerpts where he makes the points I mentioned above, but check for yourself that I have not taken the excerpts out of context in such a way as to distort their meaning.
To be clear, I am not accusing YOU of lying or speaking in bad faith, but I suspect that in this particular case you have been lied to about his words in context. And I was as easily deceived as you, so I'm not bragging. But are you willing to take a scant few minutes to investigate the truth?
"I would like to provide the nation with an update on the ongoing federal response to the horrific attack and violence that was witnessed by everyone. I just met with FBI Director Christopher Wray and Attorney General Jeff Sessions. The Department of Justice has opened a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that killed one innocent American and wounded 20 others. To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend’s racist violence, you will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered. As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence. It has no place in America."
...
"We must love each other, show affection for each other and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans. Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs including the KKK, neo Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans." ...
"Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America. Two days ago, a young American woman, Heather Heyer, was tragically killed. Her death fills us with grief and we send her family our thoughts, our prayers and our love."
-----
Then from the subsequent chaotic press conference:
"Q Was it terrorism, in your opinion, what happened?
THE PRESIDENT: As I said on — remember, Saturday — we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America. And then it went on from there."
...
"you can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as “the fastest one to come up with a good verdict.” That’s what I’d call it. Because there is a question: Is it murder? Is it terrorism? And then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. And what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing."
....
"THE PRESIDENT: Those people — all of those people –excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee.
THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me. If you take a look at some of the groups, and you see — and you’d know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases you’re not — but many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee."
...
"But they were there to protest — excuse me, if you take a look, the night before they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee."
...
"THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides — I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either.
And if you reported it accurately, you would say.
Q The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest...
THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves — and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group.
Q (Inaudible.)
THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did.
You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."
...
"So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people — and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists — because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.
Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."
...
"THE PRESIDENT: No, no. There were people in that rally — and I looked the night before — if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people — neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them."
Those with Trump Derangement Syndrome DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE FACTS. They despise him and will never give him credit, where credit is due. Remember, Trump is Orange Man Bad, blah, blah, blah!
In fact, many on the Left have said, they’d rather see America fail than have Trump win … and with Biden, they are getting exactly what they voted for.
No. He wasn't. He was talking about the rallies/protests and the conflicts and physical altercations between groups over that.
After James Alex Fields, Jr. drove a car into people. And white nationalists march chanting, "Jews Will Not Replace Us." He said "There were very fine people on both sides."
But I'm glad you brought that up. It's so funny that the U.S. is the ONLY country in the entire world that has monuments, military bases, schools, etc. dedicated to traitors who fought to keep DEIs enslaved.
I don't know who they are. The only clue I have is that, while it's possible, I don't recall that I've seen right-wingers chant when they demonstrate, but I do recall seeing left-wing groups chant in unison on many occastions. Whoever this group is, I wish them the worst.
You are wrong, Joan. Whatever the J6 protestors were / are, they are very much patriotic Americans. Many are retired Vets. Remember, the one young, unarmed female Vet shot dead by the Capital policeman?
I wish it were right wing propaganda. Sadly I am surrounded by liberals gone bad who are very much like these yahoos. The Hamas apologists and zealously pro Palestine lovers of all things Islam and anti Israel jew haters are literally on every street corner in my community these days.
That happened to me during my college days in the mid 1970’s. The Iranians were harsh and angry, and looked like terrorists. I was young and dumb then and did not recognize it. The Hari Krishnas gave us a free lunch, a better deal then, on the mall in front of the University main library. My avocation then was to go up to the top floor of the student Union building into the music room. They had thousands of LPs then. I would select an LP, give to the people to play it, and then go into my small room to listen to it. Young folks today have no understanding of what happened nor how it happened.
Abortion is murder of innocent babies, and absolutely nothing else. They are done for the convenience of the irresponsible boys and girls. Every time a young woman receives an abortion, it destroys her very essence of being. The young man becomes normalized to violence. And then they act out for their next 30 years or so.
Every one of these freaks chanting Death to America needs to have the snot beaten out of them and their sorry asses deported to Sandland. What is wrong with us that we permit open treachery in our midst. Time to get serious about treason.
While I hate the sentiment, the First Amendment protects the right of people to chant anything, even "Death to America.". You can bet if anyone in Iran chanted "Death to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei," their life span would be very short.
For citizens. Maybe. For aliens. Not even close. And for those "citizens," there are ways to show our deep displeasure. Remember that a much more qualified Justice Jackson famously observed that "our Constitution is not a suicide pact." We are in an existential struggle with the forces of evil. Coddling them is not a sound strategy.
Illegal aliens can be deported but the present regime does not do so. Legal aliens enjoy many of the same rights as American citizens. In Bridges v. Wixon (1945), writing for the Court, Justice William O. Douglas concluded that “freedom of speech and of the press is accorded aliens residing in this country...."
The current regime has subverted our immigration law and thus should be viewed as illegitimate. Bridges did not address whether the petitioner was lawfully in the US, saying only he came from Australia. If you are OK with legal aliens chanting death to America, that's your right. I am not. I subscribe to Theodore Roosevelt's view of what constitutes an American and the treatment afforded to immigrants who adopt us and swear fealty to America.
If the First Amendment only supports saying things I agree with it's a pretty weak protection for free speech. Saying something is legal doesn't mean I'm "OK with it."
Agree with you, Bob. Only speech that someone else "hates" (and therefore it is hate speech under the "someone hates it" test) needs 1st Amendment protection. Remember the flag burning controversies in the 1980s? Those were the "Death to America" speech at that time.
Whatever happened to those "I hate what you have to say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it" t-shirts and bumper stickers?
Yes. He has rights. You have rights. That is how it is supposed to be in America. But it sounds like you want to take some people's Constitutionally-protected rights away.
You only have constitutional rights if you are a citizen. So, if the death to America chanter is a non-citizen, deport him. Strangely, if he is a citizen, killing him would fulfill his wish
Incorrect. The first amendment (actually the entire Constitution) protects citizens and non citizens equally because the Constitution does not apply to people but to the government. The first amendment, for example, says that the GOVERNMENT cannot infringe on speech. It does not limit that to citizens.
To repeat - our Constitution is not a suicide pact. If you think an enemy alien can come into America and be subject to the protection of our laws, that is nuts. The notion that Himmler could have waltzed into America and given speeches in the dark days of 1942 is beyond laughable.
And at the same time we had legions of communists infiltrating our government and trade unions. A fact confirmed by the KGB files when the Soviet Union fell. Neither were good for America. And remember it wasn't only Coughlin and Smith. There were Bund rallies held in major American cities before the war. Free speech can warp into a suicide pact very easily. I am a free speech advocate but pushing the agenda of a malign foreign government changes things.
That same logic could be used by our current WH to lock up citizens for dangerous speech. Either Free speech is an inalienable right endowed by our creator or it isn't.
I agree with you that people, especially non-citizens, who don't like this country should be gotten rid of. But not because of what they say.
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, §330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)
Historical and Revision Notes
Based on title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., §§1, 2 (Mar. 4, 1909, ch. 321, §§1, 2, 35 Stat. 1088).
Justice has no qualifier. It's not "social" or "restorative" - it's blind. You don't get to make up qualifiers or words or indulge groups by identity, even while recognizing past unfairness, you address today's crime by being fair, not lawless. You don't get to weaponize it against political opponents.
You don't mollycoddle groups that assault court houses, take, by force, chunks of a major city (sedition), attack police and disrupt campuses and throw the book at their political counterparts. That is what failed states do. No one is entitled to impunity based on race, ideology, or politics. I have absolutely no problem if a white thief or violent mugger or drug dealer gets the same penalty as a non- white. That should be obvious; the only reason I'm saying it is because it's always implied that whites don't want fairness. These things and blame are always implied. A violent homeless person has no right to trump public safety. And that's where it ends.
I suppose you want to put a bullet in the head of Edward Snowden, huh? And probably Assange, for good measure. We can use ancient treason laws in a very bastardized way. the Obama administration was especially good at this.
I don't think I've ever given five seconds' thought to Edward Snowden or Assange, for that matter. I know they have their groupies. When Rutgers professors discuss "dismantling" the United States and how to replace it, and people shout death to America on U.S. soil, and when similar sentiments led to war attacks on the World Trade Center and the U.S. Capitol, it's more than sensible to discuss sedition and treason. Our society has become so used to internal vitriol and hate we wouldn't recognize a 10-ton tank coming straight at us.
Here's the definition of sedition, which apparently requires the use of force -- incitement of, use of, or resulting in, violence. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/sedition
The people in the video weren't in a crowded theater nor were they doing anything disruptive nor committing treason. As Ron Paul said, the First Amendment doesn't just give us the right to discuss the weather; it protects controversial speech.
Fair enough. In the specific case of THAT video. However the stated purpose of that meeting was literally disrupting part of USA democratic process. \_o_/
It's not these little "snots" that are to blame. It goes back to "The Greatest Generation" which innocently created a life of such ease and erroneously thought it's good to baby children.
Oh man, don't blame it on them, their kids are in their 70s. The generation of parents in the 90s and 00s are those who deserve your incoming fire. True, the greatest generation did a nice job of creating a bountiful nation after WWII, but they let their kids play outside all day, drink from garden hoses, and even play in the street. The term "play date" did not come out of that generation.
You're right - I sounded blaming and did not mean to. I have the greatest respect for The Greatest Generation!! It's just an error, imo that many of them did not see the need for their offspring and succeeding generations to do hard stuff. Too much freedom? Hey, I love freedom, but was not disciplined by my parents the way some were. I turned out to be a freedom lover, and absorbed good morals in spite of that but many take the easy way. One result is that nowadays "students" are running the asylums! (schools).
Well, we have a Bill of Rights, which includes Amendment #1. I personally think it's fine to criticize your own government--after all, we all want to do better. I also think it's retarded to say something like "death to my own country." But I think when we go out of our way to protect all speech, the dumb speech will be filtered out by people. The alternative is Biden's people calling up Youtube to de-monetize Russell Brand, or to shadow-ban people on Facebook, or to stifle speech about stuff like truth about the Covid pandemic. And have a national media that is more or less State Media.
Give me the loud, crazy, free speech eight days a week.
I think #1 is most at risk. #2 is a conversation starter, but will never change. #4 started dying under Bush, and Obama, etc. have accelerated the trend. #10 is a total toss-up. Republicans want states' rights....EXCEPT for all those times they want to impose something nationally. Dems typically lean toward federal rights, EXCEPT when they don't. So everyone's a hypocrite on that one.
How many are there? 15? Are they American citizens? This article smell of propaganda, and is just one more little stab toward “liberals”, who would NEVER engage in such anti-American stunts.
Sadly many of the dopey liberals have drunk the far lefty Kool aid. There are a lot around here, mostly old hippies who cannot seem to grok how much the progressive left has changed since their own hey day.
Pre-WWII, the mayor of NY was contacted by Meyer Lansky, who offered to have some of his “consultants” do just that to Nazi sympathizers who were exercising their First Amendment rights and staging rallies. Surprisingly, Mayor Wagner took him upon the offer and folks in the know cheered the decision.
Only the Biden, Lindsey Graham, Chuck Schumer and the other elite psychopaths are cheering.
In the mean time, lets do the 3rd grade math real quick.
1. American citizens start significantly pushing back against Congress sending more money to aid Ukraine in their losing war with Russia.
2. Congress decides to add funding for Israel and the southern border to the package hoping that would provide a path to get said funding. It didn't work.
3. Israel, for the first time since ever, decides it’s a good idea to bomb a foreign embassy compound (Iran) in a sovern nation (Syria).
4. The US and Israel know that Iran will have to retaliate & Iran responds with drones and cruise missiles giving Israel & the world several hours’ notice before said ordinance finds its way to its targets.....then Iran announces they are done with their retaliation.
5. Israel states that they will now retaliate, and they will, but in the next few days the US is going to step in and try to fool everyone that they’ve saved the day and brokered peace.
6. The House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence scrambles around to drum up public fear and starts pushing their talking heads out to all the main stream media stations and newspapers so that Congress can go back and repackage an even larger funding package to Ukraine & Israel, this time leaving funding for the US southern border out completely.
7. After adding a grotesque amount of additional pork to it, it gets shoved through House and Senate in record time and anyone who questions or opposes it is called an antisemite and a puppet of Putin.
8. American taxpayers get bent over one more time while politicians, the military industrial complex, corporate elites and globalists rake in billions.
I’m not anti-Israel. In fact I’m pro Israel. I’m just not pro continuing to fund Israel until the cows come home no matter what. We’ve supported Israel militarily and economically for 80 years. They are a nuclear power. They have the strongest military in the Middle East. They don’t need us militarily or financially for every skirmish. They’re quite capable of defending themselves and paying for it.
What we do need to do is stop funding all these conflicts and focus on the issues we have right here in our own country. We’re $35 trillion in debt and the southern border looks like the Boston Marathon on the daily. Crime is rampant, energy prices & food costs are through the roof.
Politicians are completely corrupt in these military boondoggles look and sound like gigantic money, laundering schemes.
How about if we just stopped funding Iran? While claiming to support Israel, both before and after the October 7 attack, Biden has released billions of dollars of previously frozen funds to the Islamic fundamentalist autocrats running Iran, the primary sponsor of Hamas, Hezbola, the Palestine Islamic Jihad and other terrorist groups.
You are on to something here--let's take that Ukraine money being wasted (resulting mostly in Ukrainians being killed) and spend it on Haiti. We should be embarrassed that a country in our hemisphere is so much horribly worse off than all its neighbors.
I try to keep all my comments respectful and I hope you read them in that light.
I don't see it as a worthwhile endeavor to argue point-by-point with you because I believe you are tangled in the weeds. What we are dealing with here is fundamentally simple. It is pure Jew-hatred, the very same hatred that is endemic in the Muslim community and has been going on for over 1300 years. The human toll over that time is one of the saddest chapters in human history and it is now threatening to become FAR worse. Are we to wait until the Jew-haters have the means to annihilate Israel with a nuclear bomb?
The problem at hand is bigger, much bigger, than some budget issue before the US Congress. This is an issue that rises to the existential level for both Israel and the US. There comes a point when the US must stand unwaveringly and unqualifiedly with a stalwart ally. That point, in my humble opinion, is now.
There is an unspoken premise in your statement with which I profoundly disagree, i.e., that every country should be free to develop its own nuclear weapons program whether that country is a liberal democracy that shares our values of freedom, individual liberty and constitutionally limited government or a dictatorship run by a rapacious tyrants, e.g., North Korea, religious zealots, e.g., Iran, or just plain old narco-thugs, who care not a lick about our values. Our country may not be perfect and, yes, we have a long way to go on many fronts, but I am not so demoralized about Western culture to believe that we are not better and far more advanced than the tyrants. If you share that belief, then you must make moral judgments about who should and should not have weapons of mass destruction.
"whether that country is a liberal democracy that shares our values of freedom, individual liberty and constitutionally limited government."
- Israel does not qualify for the above. It is an ethno-religious regime state.
You wrote a lot. You could have saved time and just said, "Because of the Holocaust." (i.e. your unspoken premise) Or are you worried that Iran would launch a nuclear strike against the U.S.?
Should Israel have the right to bomb other countries embassies because THEY don't consider them "legitimate?" Yes or No?
On the other hand, Jimmy Carter created the Iran problem, and dumped it there for Israel to deal with. The entire region wants Iran to be reigned in and their nuclear program discontinued, but the US doesn't want Israel to do what needs to be done.
“ I’m not anti-Israel. In fact I’m pro Israel. I’m just not pro continuing to fund Israel until the cows come home no matter what. We’ve supported Israel militarily and economically for 80 years. They are a nuclear power. They have the strongest military in the Middle East. They don’t need us militarily or financially for every skirmish. They’re quite capable of defending themselves and paying for it.”
The main purpose of the Federal Government is to protect the USA. To me, that means the majority of the FEDERAl BUDGET should go towards defense. In other words, most of the other programs should be financed at the state level. This makes sense when you consider that the cost of living is different from state to state. We could get rid of a lot of the “Pork” in Federal Government by taking away their ability to spend our tax $$ on anything except the powers given to them in the Constitution. Do I think this will ever happen? NO but meantime protecting the US is still the first priority. As for giving money to Israel and the Ukraine. I’d much prefer giving both countries what they need to fight these wars rather than our soldiers needing to go in later. The “Isolationists” who were the majority prior to Japan attacking Pearl Harbor may have cost thousands of US and Allies lives by waiting so long to get into WWII. If we provide the means for the Ukrainians and Israelis to fight these wars, maybe we won’t have to send our soldiers later.
Can’t agree with you on this one. Especially with China building war ships as fast as they can. Iran developing nuclear bombs, Russia trying to re-create The Soviet Union. The only way to keep the peace is to show a strong, well equipped, modern military. We’re way behind in the cyber weapon/defense development as well as building new ships. We aren’t prepared to protect our electric grid, water supply, food supply and even our ability to stay connected to the internet. The FEDERAL government’s first and most important responsibility is to keep us safe. All that other stuff could and should be provided by the individual states. Why should we send money to DC so that they can dole it out to different states, depending on if you’re a Blue or Red State. I guess being a Purple State is the best in an election year. With a small Central Government, we’d have more control by being closer to our individual representatives. The cost of living is very different in individual states. We’d even be able to get rid of some of that Pork. The problem for me is that I live in CA. The State has so much unsecured debt that we’ll probably have to go bankrupt in about 25 years. There should be a law that all elected representatives should have to take and pass an economics class. No body here seems to worry b/c they know that Washington (the taxpayers in other states) will bail us out.
I'm no expert on the military, and it sounds like you have some good information about where we are lacking. But if our military spending is already equal to the next 10 nations (China and Russia included) combined, what the hell is the Pentagon spending all that money on? Let's have a thorough audit of the Pentagon, like every large company and organization does annually. What are the generals and admirals afraid of? That we'll find a military version of Enron?
Giving those already-drunk-with-our-money idiots even one more cent without knowing exactly what we pay for already is a bad idea.
"What we do need to do is stop funding all these conflicts..."
Take a seat outside the door, and we'll call you when we've finished talking with arms industry lobbyists and donors. Depending on how things go, we may have a moment free in 2047.
Sure, so you think that Russia and Iran are the good guys. Okay, you are free to say that. Problem is, in those benign states you wouldn’t last a minute if you supported an opposing position. It’s good to speak freely about your views when you’re free to do so.
That is fucking brilliant, dude. But Gene's comment shows that, in addition to being called an antisemite and puppet of Putin, you can also be called a 3rd grader by someone who doesn't have sufficient ammo to counter your argument.
Thank you. I’m so exhausted by these obvious bits of propaganda on this “free press” site. “Anti-American” is all in the eye of the beholder, and this particular beholder thinks the article stinks of a desire to generate distrust and hatred without our own population.
An inability to distinguish between the ontological status of events, and perceptions of them in the 'eyes of beholders,' is about as confused as it gets. How do you account for the phenomenon of perception? Do you think events give rise to perceptions, or the reverse? If the latter, explain how the process of perception giving birth to events works. What mysterious generative power of the eye enables it to accomplish this causal feat?
Most definitely 3rd grade, at best. Evan’s “logic” is as transactional as Trump and his ability to see the future is as delusional as it it incredible (literally.)
Jon, yes we could. The Abraham Accords, by entirely ignoring the Palestinians, set up for October 7. Whatever else they did that day, they forced Israel and the world to pay attention: “Remember us? We’re still here and we are not going away”.
The entire ME, with the exception of Iran's proxy states realized that Iran would never allow for peace in the ME. Palestinians were never going to be allowed to negotiate for peace as long as Hamas/Iran was in control. Hamas/Iran needs to be removed from Gaza for Palestinians to ever have peace.
Iran knew of the 10/7, and I believe, facilitated it to destroy the Abraham Accords. This wasn't a 'remember us'. it was the first of two Iranian attacks on Israel. The truth is coming out, and I believe your version isn't it.
OK, let me try. Jon (& others - here’s looking at you Bruce) advocate bombing Iran (& Gaza) to eliminate the threat. In 1961, the commandant of the USMC, Gen. Matthew Ridgeway, did a memorable map overlay of Cuba onto the U.S. to show Republican voices calling for an invasion just what it would mean: Cuba stretches from New York all the way to Chicago. Iran stretches from Boston to Oklahoma City. Iran has 90 million people. Bombing them “back to the Stone Age” is a feel-good emotional outburst but as a strategy, it is fatuous. One more thing: the Iranian people are no more “guilty” along with the ayotollahs than are the Venezuelans, Russians, Nicaraguans, Belorussians, “guilty” of the crimes of their leaders. We did try to bomb the Germans and Japanese “back to the Stone Age” in WW2; were they “guilty”? Possible - they voted for their leadership before the war - but even there, such elections were no more free and fair than they are today in China. Hitler set up Dachau two weeks after being appointed Chancellor in 1933; do you think any sane German would risk voting against him after that?
Iran’s leaders are obsessional fanatics but bombing the people is not only immoral, it’s a losing play.
Thanks for the brisk workout. We'll return the favour soon, giving you an opportunity to see just how effective your own drone and missile defence systems are. Good luck.
We need to hear Catherine Herridge’s voice on all of this. She’s the best of the best and at a time like this, her voice should not be silenced. The Free Press should please hire her!
Steve, as a former television reporter, I’m sure Herridge’s compensation package would be substantial. But given the meteoric rise of the Free Press, adding a journalist of Herridge’s reputation and capabilities would surely catapult this site into the stratosphere. It would also prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that new media is thriving while old media is collapsing.
According to Wikipedia, "Some CBS staffers and Democrats accused Herridge of promoting Republican talking points..." I take this to mean she isn't sufficiently ideologically captured in the eyes of the woke--which suggests there's a fighting chance she can be relied upon to be objective.
Shame on CBS for locking her out of her office and then allowing the FBI & others to see her sources. That’s against the Constitution which allows for a Free Press! Herridge is willing to go to jail to protect her sources, which makes her a hero and makes CBS the equivalent of Pravda.
“And Olivia Reingold on the Americans cheering it on.”
———————————————————-
Like, for example, Barack Hussein Obama, who, when he isn’t attending a Black Supremacist ‘Church’ and retrieving the corpses of paddle boarders from his Netflix Pond, is not only cheering them on but also funding them.
Imagine Mary’s reaction if a document surfaced where Trump admitted he’s gay and then they fished a gay guy out of a water hazard at one of his golf courses:
"The hate and misinformation will continue to flow through a conduit like you."
(?) You betray confusion here too, Marilyn. Saying we're 'misinformed' is a convenient shorthand for saying we've received information that's inaccurate, incomplete, or in some other way unreliable. But it doesn't follow from this conventional language usage that there's such a thing as 'misinformation.' Ontologically, the word designates a null set (there are plenty of these: 'square circles;' 'married bachelors;' 'the king of America;' 'your pet dinosaurs;' etc.). Everything without exception that impinges on your consciousness qualifies as information; and what we're normally concerned to know about an item of information are its reliability, utility, relevance, and so on, things that can only be established by empirical investigation.
It's exactly this kind of investigation the 'misinformation' label is intended to prevent. The label is a censorship tool that pretends we already have answers to questions we haven't even been allowed to ask yet. If you believe in free speech you'll stop collaborating in the use of this deceptive language. Just give us uncensored information, please, and we'll decide for ourselves to what extent it's true or false, misleading or a reliable guide to decision-making. Each individual in a democracy has not only a right but a responsibility to keep him/herself informed; and the last thing any democracy needs is a bureaucratic layer of official 'truth police' expropriating this responsibility and exercising it on citizens' behalf.
As for 'hate,' claims about this emotion are always all the better for proof. Pick out any argument made in this forum and show what debt, if any, its premises or logical form owe to hatred. Take your time.
But we have been 'misinformed' here. It's 110% Israel, and shut down free speech of anyone protesting Israel. No mea culpas about bad information that has been published. And a reliable comments section to call all naysayers Jew-haters and antisemites.
I'm not taking any position on whether on not anybody has been misinformed. I'm saying that, either way, there's no such entity as 'misinformation,' no matter how often the word is rammed down our throats.
Don't be misled by this treacherous word's ubiquity. Remember Nietzsche: "An error that becomes respectable is an error that possesses one seductive charm more." How many times have you heard someone say that something "begs the question," thinking this means "raises the question?" It doesn't. To beg the question is to assume that which was to be proved, which is a logical fallacy.
Hope everyone enjoyed the fireworks show. Both the rockets and Iron Dome are funded by US taxpayer dollars, while we are $34 trillion in debt and adding another $1 trillion every few months. Don't forget to file by tomorrow's deadline!
Iron dome is a joint venture of Israel and the US. The US gets a battle tested multilayered defense without having to risk US lives. Which now appears to have a 99% success rate. Not bad for a joint venture...
I disagree. Israel is constantly under attack of rockets and missiles. That is battle testing the technology; not just pretending to battle test it. We end up with a better defense system learning from what went well (and what did not go so well).
Not my point. I agree we should not be subsidizing Israel in general. But this is a joint venture to develop a missile defense system. I'm a fan of having this technology work for the US. We have obtained a lot of technology that was developed by Israel for military purposes that is now used for civilian purposes, such as (by example) medical treatment devices an systems.
Alternatively, we could just let bombs rain down indiscriminately on unprotected Israeli civilians. That would serve the cause of 'social justice,' I guess.
If that was to happen, there would be a rush on medical facilities near US universities and the NYT office building, due to all those erections lasting more than 4 hours.
My reading comprehension is fine. Your argument is that we test these systems by seeing how well they work when Israel uses them to defend Israel. That is not the same thing as using them to defend the US. It’s just a weapons testing program. When we use this same argument to justify sending/paying for weapons to Ukraine people like you complain that we should stop. So the argument works for weapons to Israel, but not for Ukraine?🇺🇦
The difference is that Israel actually developed the system. They are very capable with technology. We get their R&D. Ukraine, OTOH, is very good and gangsters, black markets, and corruption. They are completely dependent on the US and Europe for their defense systems. So, to be blunt, we spend over ten times more on a bottomless hole in Ukraine than we do for Israel's military technology.
Good to know you've swallowed the Russian propaganda hook, line and sinker. Forget about all the progress the Ukrainians have made to meet every benchmark anyone has asked of them for entry into NATO, the EU or the UN, which doesn't recognize the illegal military seizures by Russia of Crimea and the Donbas. In the meantime we have been propping up Israel for over 80 years and they still ask for more and more and more. The British military in charge of Mandatory Palestine told London that their proposals for Israel, if enacted, would result in death and destruction for 100 years or more, and they were right.
(?) I haven't yet advanced any argument, Ms. P. And how do you know what I'm like, or what I complain about? As far as I can tell, you're simply arbitrarily limiting the meaning of 'defend' (not a word I used: instead, I drew attention to Americans' legitimate "interest" in the battlefield functionality of the weapons systems they've developed) to exclude anything that isn't actual ordinance use by Americans in, over or beside America itself, which certainly wouldn't be a military strategist's understanding of the term.
The fact that your reading comprehension and psychic skills seem on a par suggests that relying on the latter to compensate for the former will profit you little. What you might find more useful when responding to posts is doing so relevantly, as opposed to indulging pet peeves and/or otherwise embarking on irrelevant side-excursions. Frankly, I have no interest in your views on Ukraine or your speculations about mine; but if you want to know what qualifies as an argument I might be able to help you there. Among many good books on the subject, Irving M. Copi's Introduction to Logic is a reasonable starting-point... though of course one has to be able to comprehend its contents.
Cost of Social Security and Medicare - $2150 billion
While we are $34 trillion ($34,000 billion) in debt, it's not because of Iron Dome. $34 trillion would fund Iron Dome for the next 210,000 years. Trying being a budget hawk about something more meaningful, or you're just using that as an excuse to be anti-Israel.
Good point. I guess I have become inured by all the "antisemite" and "Jew-hater" insults that usually greet any criticism of the government or leadership of Israel.
There are people who feel that way, But, I don't subscribe to it. Of course you can criticize Israel without being Anti-Jew, just like you can criticize Iran without being anti-Muslim (I mean, not if you are in Iran).
That’s the trouble with this site, it has no intention of clear reporting. This article is as offensive as your pretenses and hate against your fellow American citizens.
Yes, there is significant context missing. For instance, we have a Bill of Rights that ensures rights, including that of free speech.
I don't support "Death to America." However, I do defend the right of someone to say it, as I hope you do. Free speech is easy to love when everyone thinks--and speaks--like you do. When the differences arrive, that's when our commitment to our Constitution gets more challenging, but worth it.
Let me clarify, we can have a discussion about the limits of free speech if you want. However my question is what issue Marilyn Sherman Clay has with the reporting "that's the trouble with this site, it has no intention of clear reporting..." Is there another side to this she (or you) can shed some light on (that somehow the reporting aggregiously missed)?k
The Free Press's reporting, which comes across much like PR work for Bibi, is astonishingly biased toward Israel. There is no meaningful critique of Israel's actions, there is a lashing out at those in the US who protest Israel. When I open The Free Press and see an article about Israel/Gaza, I might as well be reading a memo from AIPAC or the ADL.
That's another interesting topic to discuss. How do you think that relates to progressives chanting Death to Israel Death to America in Farsi? did the reporting in this story miss something? Or in general, you feel that there's another reasonable narrative out there which isn't being put forth in TFP and while this specific story might be ok this other point of view is never really presented?
Did you even read the article? It was a meeting held in a basement of a Teamsters building in Chicago. The first paragraph explains it very clearly. She says the meeting was held to discuss their plans for disrupting the DNC in August. She says "over 300 people" attended. The death to America et al chanting happened when someone in the room announced that the attack had been launched. There is no missing context. Maybe you are just really bad with reading comprehension?
Israel attacked Iran in Syria. That's what started this. But what we get is "unprecedented" attack from Iran on Israel. That's very one-sided. Whether that deliberate ignorance of facts is offensive is in the eye of the beholder. But the article, like everything about Israel in TFP, is studded with wrong or missing data.
Do you deny that Hezbollah and Hamas and Ansar Allah and many more militias attacking Israel are direct Iranian proxies? To a large part being coordinated by Iran?
I think this was the right response. They were killed in a country which over the course of this conflict has launched missiles at Israel. So they were in a country planning attacks on Israel in a country which has attacked Israel on multiple times over the past half year. Sounds like fair game to me. The same attack in Iran itself? Harder to defend.
Your question about applying this to US/Ukraine is food for thought. I'd like to ponder before I reply.
This all distracts from the facts that Iranian Back terrorists are now holding 5 Americans and 100's of others hostage in Gaza. Let's focus on those people and say a prayer for them today. If you want peace in the Middle East it starts there.
Israel took out a legitimate military target in a Iranian embassy in less than civilized country, where terrorist groups control large areas. Iran proxies invaded Israel killed, raped, committed horrendous acts on innocent people and kidnapped children and civilians. Iran fired weapons, not at military targets in Israel but at civilian populations. There is no equivocation -- Iran does not follow "modern norms" It's aim is the destruction if Israel and we have Left wing loonies who support them -- some of who are in our State Department and Pentagon.
Iran attacked Israel on Oct 7th through its proxies controlled by the targeted officers of their military, thus their embassy and military personnel are fair game. Iran fired 300 ordinances on Sunday at civilian targets but more their proxies have fire thousands of ordinances at civilians since 10/7.
So, according to my paid subscription to The Washington Post, the REAL reason Iran attacked Israel is that (wait for it...hold your breath), Israel ATTACKED IRAN !! So it is only Israel to blame!!
Israel hit Iran's embassy in Syria to kill a high ranking official.
That is most definitely a serious provocation and an act of war. I imagine the IDF justifies it through the accurate claim that Iran has been abusing diplomatic and humanitarian cover to conduct its terrorist and military operations.
That's where the UN is supposed to come down on them with a massive hammer to prevent such abuse, but they're busy writing more condemnations of Israel, and the IDF has had enough of it.
It was not an embassy. It was a building rented by Iranians. Only military officials who were involved in planning and organizing October 7th attack were hit.
Iran hasn’t been hiding in any shadows since 1979 when they took our embassy (an act of war since its sovereign territory of the United States). And Jimmy Carter has his feckless response that ended in the desert. Only the Democrats and swamp dwelling Republicans think Iran can be made a civilized nation.
War in the Middle East is breaking out and we're on the verge of an international disaster, and Fox News Sunday this morning spent half the time with their panel discussing abortion? Are you kidding us FN? It's become obvious they're becoming a shill for the Democrat Party just as all the MSM have.
They no longer advertise themselves as 'Fair & Balanced', or 'We Report You Decide.'
There is a large void in America for impartial journalism. Where indeed have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?
I promise you that Fox “News” has not become a shill for the Democratic Party. They are Putin all the way, with each and every panel they present to their willing idiots.
Putin is none of our business. Neither is the Ukraine. This is Germany’s problem. We should cut off all funding for Ukraine and force the EU to defend themselves. Too bad, when they do this, the Turks will rush in and shout Allahu Ackar and capture Berlin and Paris. Importing Muslims is suicidal.
It is interesting that Iran issued a statement saying that this was their last attack for the time being. I wonder if they expected it to be so ineffective.
I look forward to reading the thoughtful, non-politically deranged comments.
I think they are confused by Biden's responses and elimination of the sanctions and did not know if the US would help Israel at all. They certainly didn't expect Jordan to help. Nor was their expectation that this attack was anything more than a signal.
They're in this for the long haul. What they're doing is testing defenses, testing alliances, testing how Biden will react since the Dearborn Alliance seems to have his ear these days.
When Israel strikes back, probably against the nuclear sites, they will activate other pieces of their alliance, most likely starting with Hezbollah in Lebanon. Hezbollah could start tonight for all we know. Iran's been building up a tremendous arsenal there, making sure it's stored behind women and children, as always. Gotta keep the media sympathetic.
I'm wondering to what degree the attack was to save face with their people. Iranians must be furious over the attack on their embassy, and the Ayatollah needs to give them something.
I expected the attack to at least do _some_ damage but I hear the only casualty was a single 10-year-old girl. Good job, Iran. How many billions did you just spend to shred up a single girl?
Seems to me the best thing now would be exactly what Biden said; "take the win, Israel." I'm surprised to find that in the one matter of USA and Israel, I'm impressed at the job Biden has done and I actually think he's personally involved to a degree.
(when he's hyped up on drugs enough to be conscious, obvsiously)
Because this is how Iran operates, posture militantly for domestic and regional consumption and then respond within parameters that are under the threshold for starting a war. They are so adept at using their proxies and will let them continue the work.
We don’t yet know how much they knew the US would be involved but there are direct US-Iran channels of communication, and possibly some of that info was communicated to Israel. However the amount of explosives fired last night is exceptional and could have absolutely caused military and civilian damages, so it was for them unprecedented. With the US putting pressure on Israel not to respond and Iran saying they are “done” it signals that the next step will be an escalation taken by Israel and therefore unjustified.
It just interesting how the Iron Dome suddenly makes it okay to bomb Israel in the eyes of many. If every single bomb hit its target hundreds would be dead and a major war would be underway.
Would Iran still have done it then? If they knew it would mean full scale war.
If they did expect it would work and there would be mass death. Then this would be quite the wake call about having lack luster offense.
I suspect they thought some would get through, but they are well aware of Iron Dome. Iron Dome is not perfect. But, last night, there were also a lot of fighter aircraft in the air doing the shooting down. Iron dome was just the ones the pilots did not get. They probably anticipated the aircraft too. Maybe these were their older missiles and drones, and they don't care if they are wasted?
Fun fact about Iran. They have a factory there that makes Israel and American flags so that they will have a supply to burn on these types of occasions.
The performance of all of this is striking. To what extent were damage or casualties anticipated by Iran or the US.
Could also be that for 6 months their proxies get all the spotlight and some reports say that Iran has less control of them, and they needed to make a big show.
It was impressive and scary enough. It cost Israel $1billion dollars to play defense. In one night. And it seems to have regional players worried. If this is Iran’s introduction to the hot war what else does it intend to do
One wonders why so many (all?) the participants at the uplifting meeting are wearing masks. Does it have to do with what they inhale or what they exhale?
I’m impressed by the absolute acceptance of the “information” about this meeting. Who are they? How many? Where? What was the make-up of this organization?
Did you not actually read the article? She names names of people, she states affiliations, she names the groups that are there. Now absent every one being arrested finger printed and unmasked. What else do you want?
Yes, I'm aware that Tucker participated in Russian propaganda, and that he used it to criticize Democrats. Tucker is a TV show with an audience smaller than a good Korean dance studio on TikTok. He does not represent the tens of millions of people you call 'right wing.'
We heard at least five years of lies and conspiracy theories associating Russia and conservatives before Tucker made his trip. Most of that was deliberate conspiracy theory seeded by Democrat leadership, and they're still trying to play up the same narrative. Tucker capitalized on it by playing into their hand, and made a ton of money doing it.
If you have real insights or criticisms into the right-wing Russia relationship, we're all interested in hearing it, but hyperbolic nonsense like "right wingers want Russia to take over" is garbage and unwelcome.
CNN's average prime-time viewership is a bit over 500,000. The History Channel has bigger numbers. MSNBC and Fox News get about a million each.
And that's in prime time. Tucker has had numbers over 100 million for one show. He had a show interviewing Ice Cube recently; it had over 6 million views.
Totally right, he has a tiny audience and no one listens to him.
Mr. Beast gets over 100 million views on almost every one of his videos. His views dwarf the Tucker Show by orders of magnitudes. The channels you refer to have multiple outlets compared to Tucker's one.
Also, Tucker is not an extremist and does not want Russia taking over the US. He has condemned Putin in no uncertain terms.
I apologize for being intentional and specifc with my language and still having my message mininterpreted because of other people's assumptions about my political leanings. You're right. That's 100% on me. I'll try harder next time.
Common Russian people are often Orthodox Christians. We share that experience in overall Church of Jesus. All Christian denominations flow from Judaism with the birth and death of Jesus, and we will be united again at the end of the age before the second coming of King Jesus.
We have absolutely nothing in common with Islam but continuing warfare for the last 1,400 years.
Hagar, was the concubine of our Patriarch Abraham . His wife Sarai was barren. She told her husband to take a concubine to have heirs. The concubine was Hagar and she bore Ishmael, the father of Arabs. The ancient warfare between Jews and Arabs started 4,000 years ago. And still continues. History matters.
You keep claiming that none of the comments here are true, but you’re not explaining why they’re wrong. Please back up what you’re saying if you’re calling out the comments and calling the article propaganda.
Well, when one says "Extremists on the left want Islam to take America...," I didn't see your comment demanding proof. So you only want proof when someone thinks differently than you?
I remember when massive protests took place in San Francisco denouncing the Iranian regime and demanding basic human rights for women and political activists. Where are those protesters now?
Where are the NGO astroturfed protests designed to make it look like women around the world are suffering when Republicans are in charge? Is that your question?
I am a woman and reject this thinking. It's a tiresome idea.
Meaning I agree with the comment
I am a man and I also agree with my very insightful comment which deserves to receive lots of ‘likes’.
🤓🤓😂😂😂
I just gave it six but only one took.
I just realized Kevin Durant? is me, just quicker.
In Israel
The Israelis and the people of Iran are United to defeat the Ayatollah’s brutal repressive regime
Where is our useless CIA? We should be doing everything in our power to help the Iranian people arise against the mullahs.
Well if they are like the inept State Department & Pentagon.... this from Tablet quoting a WSJ article, "...showed that Malley had helped to infiltrate an Iranian agent of influence named Ariane Tabatabai into some of the most sensitive positions in the U.S. government—first at the State Department and now the Pentagon, where she has been serving as chief of staff for the assistant secretary of defense for special operations, Christopher Maier." Yeah, let's try talking to Iran, give them shit piles of money, and then beg them not to go nuclear - it will all work out...
Like we did in 1979 and every year since?
1979? You mean the 1950s when the CIA overthrew the democratically elected leader so western oil companies could retain control of Iranian oil. That ushered in the radicals. The CIA is a fascist Wall Street army. Maybe death to the CIA?
I think the failures of a culture belong to it alone; finger pointing and excuse making aren't convincing. Surely after 50 years of this, the world might stop waiting for the "real" Iran to emerge. This must be it.
You’ve got a point. America IS responsible for its corrupt CIA and the the rest of the security state.
And the CIA planned the coup d’etat in 2020. And the J6 afterparty. Their specialty is overthrowing governments. They did it to us in 2020 with Covid and the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax.
I love these "...we overthrew XXX country..." stories of lore. If it worked every and all the time, why aren't we still doing it?
We are, you just haven't been paying attention. The CIA did it's best to help a leftist Thai candidate get elected in the last election.
Instead, we sent billions to Iran and enabled them to resume selling gobs of oil, making them rich and powerful. Thanks, Brandon.
The Shah was Ronnie Reagan’s best friend.
Actually, he was Jimmie Carter’s
BFF. Carter wanted to let him into the US. That confirmed that Pahlavi was a US CIA stooge. Raygun simply told the douche bag idiots holding American hostage they had limited time to release them.
Ah, Bruce, the CIA is a shit show. Keep them out of foreign affairs. Bunch of crooks and megalomaniacs.
The WH wants no more endless wars or the war to end all wars. The Palestinian people have to be absorbed by Egypt and Jordan and Saudi Arabia or maybe they can come to the New World and enter the US through the southern border - just kidding although it's not funny..
There already was almost a two state solution with a Palestinian Authority. Clearly Iran, Yemen and Hezbollah have to be defeated by the Arabic people united to Israel and U.S. under 21st c capitalism.
The Saudi Arab, Egyptian and Jordanian leaders' desire entrance on to the playing field of.world powers. They see that they are better off, that is to say that those with power can maintain power when the people don't revolt and their people don't revolt when they can earn a living and have their families live in peace with a little piece of the pie.
Iran is Persia. I don't know if Yemen and Qatar are Arab or just Islamists of some other mixed Middle East races that succumbed to religious excuses for being losers destined to wage war against capitalist winners.
Hell no, we dont want any Muslims at all now. We should be deporting the ones we have now. Just say NO to sharia law.
Sharia Law allowed by French Govt for North African Moslems in France. Appeasement by the Freedom Passionate Fremch for the sins of colonial West Africa. How's that working out for them?
Run, a Muslim is a Muslim is a Muslim.
They are all cloned?
The CIA is busy working to destroy human freedom in the US.
They are busily attending weeks-long diversity and inclusion workshops and assigning blame for everything wrong in the world on cisgender white men. And the cisgender white women nod along in utter fear.
Busy squashing Brazil.
We need Perot, not the CIA.
Excellent idea! All our other CIA coups have been fabulously successful, especially the one that returned Reza Shah Pahlavi to power in Iran in 1953. That one turned out great.
Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was not deposed by Mosaddegh. And, in fact, the Shah's reign worked out nicely for Iran until he was knifed in the back by Carter. The theocrat tyrants who are behind significant terrorism are that legacy.
I didn't say he was. Mosaddegh was deposed by the CIA coup that returned the Shah to power. And while his reign included much modernization, it was also totalitarian and autocratic. And there was a revolution for a reason. The Shah wasn't winning any popularity contests.
Well he wasn't deposed from power. But with Mosaddegh out of the way Pahlavi's power certainly increased. I'm no fan of the CIA's meddling, which probably did more harm than good. But the Shah was a damn sight better that the Ayatollah and his kid would probably have been and even better ruler.
Carter is a far left, incompetent, asshole.
They’ve been busy protesting against Israel supporting Palestine.
Who are “they”? The article does not make it clear, nor does it confirm a single whit of information about this supposed group.
Did you follow the link to ‘Olivia’s Dispatch’. This is really only a comment piece, Olivia’s article has more detailed reporting. It might answer some of your questions. Perhaps you will have more questions but, it’s a starting point and maybe the commenters there will be able to help a bit more. Hope this helps!
Just replying to my own comment to say that calling this post a ‘comment piece’ is inaccurate. I’m not sure what the appropriate term is but it really serves as a means of collecting two related articles that we might’ve be interested in and introducing them. It also provides a link to Matti’s article.
Those people now support Iran.
As former DCI John Ratcliffe said today, after outlining the long list of things this administration has done wrong regarding Iran, "…with friends like Joe Biden, Israel doesn't need more enemies."
I would sure like to know who they are, and what the group is made of. I smell right-wing propaganda.
Wake up! This is a relatively small group of extreme Leftists. Stop burning your head in the sand by blaming it on anyone who isn’t a Democrat. It isn’t about either Party, it’s about a very well organized and funded group of people who are trying to “Fundamentally Change the US” forever and turn it into a two Class System….The Ruling Class and those that are Ruled.
It already turned into that. Now it's just maintenance.
Masters and slaves. With the slaves submerged in an ether of propaganda. Censorship is necessary to protect the propaganda.
Obama released tens of billions of dollars to Iran and Biden gave Iran 6 billion dollars. Is that a rightwing propaganda?
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/obama-iran-terrorism/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/11/us-iran-sanctions-waiver-americans-detained-iran
We should have bomb Iran (the biggest supporter of international terrorism in the world) back to the stone age. It is a country run by Islamic murdering thugs.
Yeah, but there are about 90 million Iranians. I suspect all are not members of the Revolutionary Guard. And Persian women are very lovely.
Let's not kill everyone in Iran.
I am not saying kill them all. We could bomb their infrastructure, bridges, highways, power plaints, oil fields and refineries and completely destroy their port facilities.
And when they have rebuilt them, bomb them again. Not of our presidents have had the backbone to do this. Iran through their surrogates have killed dozens, hundreds? of US citizens. We should have done this decades ago. If we bomb their infrastructure the Iranians could never export oil their biggest moneymaker and couldn't fund A-bomb technology and couldn't be the biggest supporter of international terrorism.
That can only work if we start drilling right here in the USA. We’ll have to “save the planet” by supplying oil needed to our allies once the Iranian oil fields are out of commission. The Environmentalists will have to calm down and back off until we are able to get the Muslim Extremists out of power in Iran.
That would be a challenge. A large percentage of the Iranian population are peace-loving people who want rid of their jihadist oppressors. Don’t bomb them!
A good start would be for the US to produce more oil and also stop sending money (Obama sent millions in cash) and Biden administration sent money as recent as a month ago. We also have to tell countries like China that if they buy oil from Iran, they can’t sell their products in the US without a HUGE tariff
Lack of oil production isn't the probem, lack of refineries is the problem. The US produces enough oil for domestic consumption and export, but it has to send it offshore to be refined into usable fuel.
How would you get rid of the current regime and have Iran stop supporting terrorism?
I'm not going to insult you, but I don't understand your point. Can you connect the dots for me? Do you claim that Iran didn't fire missiles or drones into Israel? Do you not consider that an act of provocation? Do you believe that Iran had a legitimate military objective in doing it? Seriously, I'd like to follow your reasoning. Making accusations of "right wing propaganda" are just a smear, no better than how you're being treated. I'm happy to discuss or even debate but your reply was just a "hit and run."
Iran responded to the attack on its military installation in Syria. The Israeli attack was the one of provocation.
How would most countries respond if one of its military installations, in the land of an ally, were attacked?
Iran had military advisers in Syria coordinating drone and missile attacks on Israel. They have been the financial and military supporters of all their proxy’s who have been attacking Israel and breaking cease fires. Iran has showed us their entire game plan in the last 24 hours. Look at where the missals came from. Many came directly from Iran but they also came from the Houthi, Syria, Hezbollah in Lebanon and other Proxies of Iran. Iran showed us that they are the main reason Israel was attacked by their Iran/Hamas (their Proxy) on October 7th. Eventually the FREE WORLD will have to cut the head off the snake. With your thinking, it won’t be Israeli soldiers fighting the war against Extreme Islamist, it will American and all Western country soldiers doing the fighting. I don’t recall seeing any responses to you, calling you antisemitic. Maybe you’ve been saying the same things in streams regarding Ukraine. I’d call you a short sighted isolationist. I don’t mean that as a personal insult but you might take it that way. It’s your words that I’m reacting to, not you as a person.
I don't take your comment as an insult. The comments I do take as insults are those, unlike yours, that are specifically meant as personal insults. I have been called not only antisemite, but also Jew-hater in these pages. It's really quite amusing, the childish insults of those who don't have cogent arguments to put forward.
I have no rose-colored view of Iran, anymore than I do of Israel. They both kill, often indiscriminately, over religious bullshit.
I'm not an isolationist. Nor do I buy the "if we don't fight them over there, we'll have to fight them over here" nonsense that gave us Vietnam and so much more.
If you read the whole article, you will see that Iran has been provoking and attacking us for a long time. This is not a one off type of situation. Your argument ignores history. I’m not saying Iranians are bad people but their government hates the USA and Israel and its allies. That much is very clear.
We would do nothing. The ever senile Joe did nothing when our bases were attacked by Iranian surrogates. He was hiding under the kitchen table. GIs were killed and wounded. We did nothing!
I suspect your nose is so high in the air you couldn't smell a fake news story if it bit you in the behind. From Russian collusion to the Jussie Smollett hoax. Oh and do you still believe that Trump said there were good people on both sides of the tiki torch march in Charlottesville?
So, let me get this straight. When someone says something that you disagree with, you insult the person, rather than discussing the reason for the disagreement. OK. That’s your thing, I guess, but it’s not mine.
Didn't you just go right to insults with Kevin Durant? Oh wait, we know your type. Go right to insults and when you get bitten back, you whine "foul." MSNBC indeed.
Well, it cuts out the in between steps and just makes things clear that some folks don’t have patience for, um, mullarkey.
There - fixed it for you, Bruce! 😆
Marilyn, you will find that the straight-to-insult model is very prevalent in The Free Press's comments section. I suspect you have the same thoughts as I do about people who, lacking worthwhile arguments, go straight to insults.
Another watch-out around here. If you criticize the government of Israel, you are obviously an antisemite and a Jew-hater. And if you forget, plenty of helpful people here will call you those names.
Actually, “smelling right wing propaganda” is insulting, as well!
He said there "Were very fine people on both sides."
So, I guess you're techically correct.
I will assume that you are sincere in believing that, as I also did.
I have never voted for Trump, and I would never vote for him. I consider him the largest short term threat to the US. So I found it easy to believe whan I was told that Trump had refused to condemn the white supremacists and instead had said there were very fine people on both sides - meaning that the white nationalists were very find people.
But then when challenged, I read the transcripts and watched the video, and found that I had been seriously misled. He absolutely did condemn neo-Nazis, white nationalists, white supremacists, the KKK, hate groups, bigotry and racism. Not once, but again and again and again.
He also made the point that there were peaceful protestors, for and against the issue of taking down Confederate statues, on both sides - as well as the bad actors on both sides which he repeatedly condemned. He did everything he could to make clear the "good people on both sides" of the issue did NOT include the violent, hateful people - more than once.
The words you quote were very deliberately taken out of context to pretend that he was supporting white nationalists etc. And I, in my anti-Trump bias, just swallowed that deception, assumed the sources on my side were trustworthy.
As much as I detest Trump, I also detest deception and manipulation. I can both oppose Trump, and support truth, at the same time. Trump has, in my opinion, a great number of defects; there's no need to invent false accusations.
Have you actually read the full transcripts for yourself? Rather than asking you to take my word for it, I want you to read both the statement and the press conference in full for yourself. Do not take my word for it. The links are below. I have also extracted some excerpts where he makes the points I mentioned above, but check for yourself that I have not taken the excerpts out of context in such a way as to distort their meaning.
To be clear, I am not accusing YOU of lying or speaking in bad faith, but I suspect that in this particular case you have been lied to about his words in context. And I was as easily deceived as you, so I'm not bragging. But are you willing to take a scant few minutes to investigate the truth?
Here's his original statement: https://time.com/4899813/donald-trump-charlottes-ville-remarks-transcript/
Here's the subsequent press conference:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/full-transcript-of-trumps-both-sides-charlottesville-presser
Excerpts from original statement:
"I would like to provide the nation with an update on the ongoing federal response to the horrific attack and violence that was witnessed by everyone. I just met with FBI Director Christopher Wray and Attorney General Jeff Sessions. The Department of Justice has opened a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that killed one innocent American and wounded 20 others. To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend’s racist violence, you will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered. As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence. It has no place in America."
...
"We must love each other, show affection for each other and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans. Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs including the KKK, neo Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans." ...
"Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America. Two days ago, a young American woman, Heather Heyer, was tragically killed. Her death fills us with grief and we send her family our thoughts, our prayers and our love."
-----
Then from the subsequent chaotic press conference:
"Q Was it terrorism, in your opinion, what happened?
THE PRESIDENT: As I said on — remember, Saturday — we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America. And then it went on from there."
...
"you can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as “the fastest one to come up with a good verdict.” That’s what I’d call it. Because there is a question: Is it murder? Is it terrorism? And then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. And what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing."
....
"THE PRESIDENT: Those people — all of those people –excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee.
THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me. If you take a look at some of the groups, and you see — and you’d know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases you’re not — but many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee."
...
"But they were there to protest — excuse me, if you take a look, the night before they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee."
...
"THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides — I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either.
And if you reported it accurately, you would say.
Q The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest...
THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves — and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group.
Q (Inaudible.)
THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did.
You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."
...
"So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people — and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists — because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.
Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."
...
"THE PRESIDENT: No, no. There were people in that rally — and I looked the night before — if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people — neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them."
Those with Trump Derangement Syndrome DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE FACTS. They despise him and will never give him credit, where credit is due. Remember, Trump is Orange Man Bad, blah, blah, blah!
In fact, many on the Left have said, they’d rather see America fail than have Trump win … and with Biden, they are getting exactly what they voted for.
He was talking about the Confederate monuments controversy.
Dullard.
No. He wasn't. He was talking about the rallies/protests and the conflicts and physical altercations between groups over that.
After James Alex Fields, Jr. drove a car into people. And white nationalists march chanting, "Jews Will Not Replace Us." He said "There were very fine people on both sides."
But I'm glad you brought that up. It's so funny that the U.S. is the ONLY country in the entire world that has monuments, military bases, schools, etc. dedicated to traitors who fought to keep DEIs enslaved.
"Air?" Didn't you mean another "a" word?
I don't know who they are. The only clue I have is that, while it's possible, I don't recall that I've seen right-wingers chant when they demonstrate, but I do recall seeing left-wing groups chant in unison on many occastions. Whoever this group is, I wish them the worst.
Good point. When was the last time a conservative group shouted, "Death to America"?
Jan 6.
I believe you are wrong. As disgusting as the Jan 6 riot was, the rioters were goofy Tumpistas but unlike the far left don't hate the US.
You are wrong, Joan. Whatever the J6 protestors were / are, they are very much patriotic Americans. Many are retired Vets. Remember, the one young, unarmed female Vet shot dead by the Capital policeman?
I wish it were right wing propaganda. Sadly I am surrounded by liberals gone bad who are very much like these yahoos. The Hamas apologists and zealously pro Palestine lovers of all things Islam and anti Israel jew haters are literally on every street corner in my community these days.
Why don't you list all the Right- Wing "propaganda" , then I'll list all the Left Wing Propaganda and we can compare and contrast?
I'll make it easier for you- list just your top 5. Go
Read the post Kip was responding to and you will see who the "people" are.
Right wing propaganda from the Free Press? I don’t think so, the majority of their staff if not all voted for Biden!
No Jews there.
They are college professors in the USA now leading those “death to America “rallies.
Talk about inciting insurrection!
How so? Please explain your logic.
Never mind. You get it.
That happened to me during my college days in the mid 1970’s. The Iranians were harsh and angry, and looked like terrorists. I was young and dumb then and did not recognize it. The Hari Krishnas gave us a free lunch, a better deal then, on the mall in front of the University main library. My avocation then was to go up to the top floor of the student Union building into the music room. They had thousands of LPs then. I would select an LP, give to the people to play it, and then go into my small room to listen to it. Young folks today have no understanding of what happened nor how it happened.
The TV told them to say something different.
It feels like they're in the Twilight Zone.
It’s not popular to do so. Those people are now at pro-abortion rallies. Makes me sick.
Abortion is murder of innocent babies, and absolutely nothing else. They are done for the convenience of the irresponsible boys and girls. Every time a young woman receives an abortion, it destroys her very essence of being. The young man becomes normalized to violence. And then they act out for their next 30 years or so.
Every one of these freaks chanting Death to America needs to have the snot beaten out of them and their sorry asses deported to Sandland. What is wrong with us that we permit open treachery in our midst. Time to get serious about treason.
While I hate the sentiment, the First Amendment protects the right of people to chant anything, even "Death to America.". You can bet if anyone in Iran chanted "Death to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei," their life span would be very short.
For citizens. Maybe. For aliens. Not even close. And for those "citizens," there are ways to show our deep displeasure. Remember that a much more qualified Justice Jackson famously observed that "our Constitution is not a suicide pact." We are in an existential struggle with the forces of evil. Coddling them is not a sound strategy.
Illegal aliens can be deported but the present regime does not do so. Legal aliens enjoy many of the same rights as American citizens. In Bridges v. Wixon (1945), writing for the Court, Justice William O. Douglas concluded that “freedom of speech and of the press is accorded aliens residing in this country...."
The current regime has subverted our immigration law and thus should be viewed as illegitimate. Bridges did not address whether the petitioner was lawfully in the US, saying only he came from Australia. If you are OK with legal aliens chanting death to America, that's your right. I am not. I subscribe to Theodore Roosevelt's view of what constitutes an American and the treatment afforded to immigrants who adopt us and swear fealty to America.
If the First Amendment only supports saying things I agree with it's a pretty weak protection for free speech. Saying something is legal doesn't mean I'm "OK with it."
Agree with you, Bob. Only speech that someone else "hates" (and therefore it is hate speech under the "someone hates it" test) needs 1st Amendment protection. Remember the flag burning controversies in the 1980s? Those were the "Death to America" speech at that time.
Whatever happened to those "I hate what you have to say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it" t-shirts and bumper stickers?
Yes. He has rights. You have rights. That is how it is supposed to be in America. But it sounds like you want to take some people's Constitutionally-protected rights away.
You only have constitutional rights if you are a citizen. So, if the death to America chanter is a non-citizen, deport him. Strangely, if he is a citizen, killing him would fulfill his wish
Incorrect. The first amendment (actually the entire Constitution) protects citizens and non citizens equally because the Constitution does not apply to people but to the government. The first amendment, for example, says that the GOVERNMENT cannot infringe on speech. It does not limit that to citizens.
To repeat - our Constitution is not a suicide pact. If you think an enemy alien can come into America and be subject to the protection of our laws, that is nuts. The notion that Himmler could have waltzed into America and given speeches in the dark days of 1942 is beyond laughable.
Himmler didn't need to, we had Father Coughlin and Gerald L.K. Smith and the America First party that attempted to keep the US out WW2.
And at the same time we had legions of communists infiltrating our government and trade unions. A fact confirmed by the KGB files when the Soviet Union fell. Neither were good for America. And remember it wasn't only Coughlin and Smith. There were Bund rallies held in major American cities before the war. Free speech can warp into a suicide pact very easily. I am a free speech advocate but pushing the agenda of a malign foreign government changes things.
That same logic could be used by our current WH to lock up citizens for dangerous speech. Either Free speech is an inalienable right endowed by our creator or it isn't.
I agree with you that people, especially non-citizens, who don't like this country should be gotten rid of. But not because of what they say.
Maybe we should pass a law that requires them to take off their masks? I’d be interested to see how many of them slither away into the darkness
But they would die from Covid without the masks!
win win
🤣🤣🤣
Displays their stupidity! Masks and being in that room to begin with.
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, §330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)
Historical and Revision Notes
Based on title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., §§1, 2 (Mar. 4, 1909, ch. 321, §§1, 2, 35 Stat. 1088).
Agreed. The First Amendment does NOT protect treason or direct encitement to commit treason. This needs to be enforced. But. It won’t be.
Justice has no qualifier. It's not "social" or "restorative" - it's blind. You don't get to make up qualifiers or words or indulge groups by identity, even while recognizing past unfairness, you address today's crime by being fair, not lawless. You don't get to weaponize it against political opponents.
You don't mollycoddle groups that assault court houses, take, by force, chunks of a major city (sedition), attack police and disrupt campuses and throw the book at their political counterparts. That is what failed states do. No one is entitled to impunity based on race, ideology, or politics. I have absolutely no problem if a white thief or violent mugger or drug dealer gets the same penalty as a non- white. That should be obvious; the only reason I'm saying it is because it's always implied that whites don't want fairness. These things and blame are always implied. A violent homeless person has no right to trump public safety. And that's where it ends.
I suppose you want to put a bullet in the head of Edward Snowden, huh? And probably Assange, for good measure. We can use ancient treason laws in a very bastardized way. the Obama administration was especially good at this.
I don't think I've ever given five seconds' thought to Edward Snowden or Assange, for that matter. I know they have their groupies. When Rutgers professors discuss "dismantling" the United States and how to replace it, and people shout death to America on U.S. soil, and when similar sentiments led to war attacks on the World Trade Center and the U.S. Capitol, it's more than sensible to discuss sedition and treason. Our society has become so used to internal vitriol and hate we wouldn't recognize a 10-ton tank coming straight at us.
No sense arguing with people who make bizarre random false equivalencies.
Here's the definition of sedition, which apparently requires the use of force -- incitement of, use of, or resulting in, violence. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/sedition
https://www.govregs.com/uscode/expand/title18_partI_chapter115_section2385#uscode_4
There's more info on specifics in the link above
Thanks Susan. How do you interpret “adheres to their enemies”?
It does not. Fire in a crowded theater.
It does not.
The people in the video weren't in a crowded theater nor were they doing anything disruptive nor committing treason. As Ron Paul said, the First Amendment doesn't just give us the right to discuss the weather; it protects controversial speech.
Fair enough. In the specific case of THAT video. However the stated purpose of that meeting was literally disrupting part of USA democratic process. \_o_/
But not Hang Mike Pence, though.
Anyone who said that is wrong. Regardless. Another false equivalency, but I agree with you about it.
Stop going partisan. The parties are a bigger joke than anything.
It's not these little "snots" that are to blame. It goes back to "The Greatest Generation" which innocently created a life of such ease and erroneously thought it's good to baby children.
Oh man, don't blame it on them, their kids are in their 70s. The generation of parents in the 90s and 00s are those who deserve your incoming fire. True, the greatest generation did a nice job of creating a bountiful nation after WWII, but they let their kids play outside all day, drink from garden hoses, and even play in the street. The term "play date" did not come out of that generation.
You're right - I sounded blaming and did not mean to. I have the greatest respect for The Greatest Generation!! It's just an error, imo that many of them did not see the need for their offspring and succeeding generations to do hard stuff. Too much freedom? Hey, I love freedom, but was not disciplined by my parents the way some were. I turned out to be a freedom lover, and absorbed good morals in spite of that but many take the easy way. One result is that nowadays "students" are running the asylums! (schools).
Well, we have a Bill of Rights, which includes Amendment #1. I personally think it's fine to criticize your own government--after all, we all want to do better. I also think it's retarded to say something like "death to my own country." But I think when we go out of our way to protect all speech, the dumb speech will be filtered out by people. The alternative is Biden's people calling up Youtube to de-monetize Russell Brand, or to shadow-ban people on Facebook, or to stifle speech about stuff like truth about the Covid pandemic. And have a national media that is more or less State Media.
Give me the loud, crazy, free speech eight days a week.
All fucking 10 of the amendments are sacrosanct. Not just the ones you like.
Excellent point. Who is attacking the others?
#2, #4 and #10 aren't beloved by the regime's apparatchiks right now.
I think #1 is most at risk. #2 is a conversation starter, but will never change. #4 started dying under Bush, and Obama, etc. have accelerated the trend. #10 is a total toss-up. Republicans want states' rights....EXCEPT for all those times they want to impose something nationally. Dems typically lean toward federal rights, EXCEPT when they don't. So everyone's a hypocrite on that one.
How many are there? 15? Are they American citizens? This article smell of propaganda, and is just one more little stab toward “liberals”, who would NEVER engage in such anti-American stunts.
Liberals may be dopey but they are almost always patriotic Americans. Leftists, on the other hand.....
Sadly many of the dopey liberals have drunk the far lefty Kool aid. There are a lot around here, mostly old hippies who cannot seem to grok how much the progressive left has changed since their own hey day.
Pre-WWII, the mayor of NY was contacted by Meyer Lansky, who offered to have some of his “consultants” do just that to Nazi sympathizers who were exercising their First Amendment rights and staging rallies. Surprisingly, Mayor Wagner took him upon the offer and folks in the know cheered the decision.
Not really advocating violence, though. Seriously
Only the Biden, Lindsey Graham, Chuck Schumer and the other elite psychopaths are cheering.
In the mean time, lets do the 3rd grade math real quick.
1. American citizens start significantly pushing back against Congress sending more money to aid Ukraine in their losing war with Russia.
2. Congress decides to add funding for Israel and the southern border to the package hoping that would provide a path to get said funding. It didn't work.
3. Israel, for the first time since ever, decides it’s a good idea to bomb a foreign embassy compound (Iran) in a sovern nation (Syria).
4. The US and Israel know that Iran will have to retaliate & Iran responds with drones and cruise missiles giving Israel & the world several hours’ notice before said ordinance finds its way to its targets.....then Iran announces they are done with their retaliation.
5. Israel states that they will now retaliate, and they will, but in the next few days the US is going to step in and try to fool everyone that they’ve saved the day and brokered peace.
6. The House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence scrambles around to drum up public fear and starts pushing their talking heads out to all the main stream media stations and newspapers so that Congress can go back and repackage an even larger funding package to Ukraine & Israel, this time leaving funding for the US southern border out completely.
7. After adding a grotesque amount of additional pork to it, it gets shoved through House and Senate in record time and anyone who questions or opposes it is called an antisemite and a puppet of Putin.
8. American taxpayers get bent over one more time while politicians, the military industrial complex, corporate elites and globalists rake in billions.
Any questions?
A 3rd grader's analysis.
I’m not anti-Israel. In fact I’m pro Israel. I’m just not pro continuing to fund Israel until the cows come home no matter what. We’ve supported Israel militarily and economically for 80 years. They are a nuclear power. They have the strongest military in the Middle East. They don’t need us militarily or financially for every skirmish. They’re quite capable of defending themselves and paying for it.
What we do need to do is stop funding all these conflicts and focus on the issues we have right here in our own country. We’re $35 trillion in debt and the southern border looks like the Boston Marathon on the daily. Crime is rampant, energy prices & food costs are through the roof.
Politicians are completely corrupt in these military boondoggles look and sound like gigantic money, laundering schemes.
How about if we just stopped funding Iran? While claiming to support Israel, both before and after the October 7 attack, Biden has released billions of dollars of previously frozen funds to the Islamic fundamentalist autocrats running Iran, the primary sponsor of Hamas, Hezbola, the Palestine Islamic Jihad and other terrorist groups.
Obama released the cash funds
So if you let someone withdraw THEIR money out of your bank, somehow YOU are funding them?
Hell, if we can simply change financial rules, let's just say that we don't really owe China $36 trillion. Debt problem solved!
We don't owe China $36 T. It's more like 6.There are lots of buyers of our debt, including ourselves.
And yea, if they've got money here and tell us they want us dead, by all means keep the money. Or give it to Haiti
You are on to something here--let's take that Ukraine money being wasted (resulting mostly in Ukrainians being killed) and spend it on Haiti. We should be embarrassed that a country in our hemisphere is so much horribly worse off than all its neighbors.
The plot thickens.
I try to keep all my comments respectful and I hope you read them in that light.
I don't see it as a worthwhile endeavor to argue point-by-point with you because I believe you are tangled in the weeds. What we are dealing with here is fundamentally simple. It is pure Jew-hatred, the very same hatred that is endemic in the Muslim community and has been going on for over 1300 years. The human toll over that time is one of the saddest chapters in human history and it is now threatening to become FAR worse. Are we to wait until the Jew-haters have the means to annihilate Israel with a nuclear bomb?
The problem at hand is bigger, much bigger, than some budget issue before the US Congress. This is an issue that rises to the existential level for both Israel and the US. There comes a point when the US must stand unwaveringly and unqualifiedly with a stalwart ally. That point, in my humble opinion, is now.
So, Israel can have nukes but no one else can?
There is an unspoken premise in your statement with which I profoundly disagree, i.e., that every country should be free to develop its own nuclear weapons program whether that country is a liberal democracy that shares our values of freedom, individual liberty and constitutionally limited government or a dictatorship run by a rapacious tyrants, e.g., North Korea, religious zealots, e.g., Iran, or just plain old narco-thugs, who care not a lick about our values. Our country may not be perfect and, yes, we have a long way to go on many fronts, but I am not so demoralized about Western culture to believe that we are not better and far more advanced than the tyrants. If you share that belief, then you must make moral judgments about who should and should not have weapons of mass destruction.
"whether that country is a liberal democracy that shares our values of freedom, individual liberty and constitutionally limited government."
- Israel does not qualify for the above. It is an ethno-religious regime state.
You wrote a lot. You could have saved time and just said, "Because of the Holocaust." (i.e. your unspoken premise) Or are you worried that Iran would launch a nuclear strike against the U.S.?
Should Israel have the right to bomb other countries embassies because THEY don't consider them "legitimate?" Yes or No?
Was Iran's response "unprovoked?" Yes or No?
that is correct. next question.
Why?
The stalwart ally that bombed USS Liberty?
That allegation has been beaten to death by repeated boards of inquiry. Time to let it go.
If you get to call someone a Jew-hater because he disagrees with you, I'm allowed to call you a dumbass.
I thought his point-by-point was quite good, as it is important to remember what actually happened in the past.
It's a free country, but if you want to call me a dumbass you'll have to get in line.
Gene - We are supporting Israel. What do you think just happened last night?
On the other hand, Jimmy Carter created the Iran problem, and dumped it there for Israel to deal with. The entire region wants Iran to be reigned in and their nuclear program discontinued, but the US doesn't want Israel to do what needs to be done.
Oh, I didn't know Carter was behind the coup to put the Shah of Iran back in power. Because that's what created your "Iran problem."
Thanks for clearing all that up.
Exactly
“ I’m not anti-Israel. In fact I’m pro Israel. I’m just not pro continuing to fund Israel until the cows come home no matter what. We’ve supported Israel militarily and economically for 80 years. They are a nuclear power. They have the strongest military in the Middle East. They don’t need us militarily or financially for every skirmish. They’re quite capable of defending themselves and paying for it.”
Best comment on this entire page.
It 100% is.
Bari et al. thinks that is the only purpose of the U.S. to fund/back up Israel in perpetuity, no matter what they do, because of the Holocaust.
They love reparations.
The main purpose of the Federal Government is to protect the USA. To me, that means the majority of the FEDERAl BUDGET should go towards defense. In other words, most of the other programs should be financed at the state level. This makes sense when you consider that the cost of living is different from state to state. We could get rid of a lot of the “Pork” in Federal Government by taking away their ability to spend our tax $$ on anything except the powers given to them in the Constitution. Do I think this will ever happen? NO but meantime protecting the US is still the first priority. As for giving money to Israel and the Ukraine. I’d much prefer giving both countries what they need to fight these wars rather than our soldiers needing to go in later. The “Isolationists” who were the majority prior to Japan attacking Pearl Harbor may have cost thousands of US and Allies lives by waiting so long to get into WWII. If we provide the means for the Ukrainians and Israelis to fight these wars, maybe we won’t have to send our soldiers later.
Current "defense" spending is 12% of the entire budget. And our military gets us into all kinds of trouble.
And you want to increase that spending to a majority?? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Can’t agree with you on this one. Especially with China building war ships as fast as they can. Iran developing nuclear bombs, Russia trying to re-create The Soviet Union. The only way to keep the peace is to show a strong, well equipped, modern military. We’re way behind in the cyber weapon/defense development as well as building new ships. We aren’t prepared to protect our electric grid, water supply, food supply and even our ability to stay connected to the internet. The FEDERAL government’s first and most important responsibility is to keep us safe. All that other stuff could and should be provided by the individual states. Why should we send money to DC so that they can dole it out to different states, depending on if you’re a Blue or Red State. I guess being a Purple State is the best in an election year. With a small Central Government, we’d have more control by being closer to our individual representatives. The cost of living is very different in individual states. We’d even be able to get rid of some of that Pork. The problem for me is that I live in CA. The State has so much unsecured debt that we’ll probably have to go bankrupt in about 25 years. There should be a law that all elected representatives should have to take and pass an economics class. No body here seems to worry b/c they know that Washington (the taxpayers in other states) will bail us out.
I'm no expert on the military, and it sounds like you have some good information about where we are lacking. But if our military spending is already equal to the next 10 nations (China and Russia included) combined, what the hell is the Pentagon spending all that money on? Let's have a thorough audit of the Pentagon, like every large company and organization does annually. What are the generals and admirals afraid of? That we'll find a military version of Enron?
Giving those already-drunk-with-our-money idiots even one more cent without knowing exactly what we pay for already is a bad idea.
Why do you think it will stop just because the cows get back home?
You’ve not seen my cows. They can stop anything. 🤔
"What we do need to do is stop funding all these conflicts..."
Take a seat outside the door, and we'll call you when we've finished talking with arms industry lobbyists and donors. Depending on how things go, we may have a moment free in 2047.
How about a bold stance from you and present your own analysis?
Or even easier, pick these 8 points apart, or even 1 or 2, and offer a reasonable rebuttal?
Sure, so you think that Russia and Iran are the good guys. Okay, you are free to say that. Problem is, in those benign states you wouldn’t last a minute if you supported an opposing position. It’s good to speak freely about your views when you’re free to do so.
Yes. You didn’t address the “Death to America” people coming across the border.
That is fucking brilliant, dude. But Gene's comment shows that, in addition to being called an antisemite and puppet of Putin, you can also be called a 3rd grader by someone who doesn't have sufficient ammo to counter your argument.
Thank you. I’m so exhausted by these obvious bits of propaganda on this “free press” site. “Anti-American” is all in the eye of the beholder, and this particular beholder thinks the article stinks of a desire to generate distrust and hatred without our own population.
What exactly confuses you about people chanting “Death to America”?
Do I sound confused?
Too tempting........
Ask Kevin Durant.
😂😂😂 that was funny
I'm sure he's got an emoji ready.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sybrZXnWx60
An inability to distinguish between the ontological status of events, and perceptions of them in the 'eyes of beholders,' is about as confused as it gets. How do you account for the phenomenon of perception? Do you think events give rise to perceptions, or the reverse? If the latter, explain how the process of perception giving birth to events works. What mysterious generative power of the eye enables it to accomplish this causal feat?
Dude, how much weed did you smoke today?
Too big, too big - let’s go get drunk and steal a car
Actually, you do. Read your comments twice and I'm still scratching my head.
Zero questions you have answered all of mine.
Margherita Bar bros.?
3A. Don't
Most definitely 3rd grade, at best. Evan’s “logic” is as transactional as Trump and his ability to see the future is as delusional as it it incredible (literally.)
Trump, through the Abraham Accords, is why you saw Jordon and the Saudis come to Israel's defense. Nobody would have predicted that ten years ago.
Agreed
Exactly.
Jon, yes we could. The Abraham Accords, by entirely ignoring the Palestinians, set up for October 7. Whatever else they did that day, they forced Israel and the world to pay attention: “Remember us? We’re still here and we are not going away”.
The entire ME, with the exception of Iran's proxy states realized that Iran would never allow for peace in the ME. Palestinians were never going to be allowed to negotiate for peace as long as Hamas/Iran was in control. Hamas/Iran needs to be removed from Gaza for Palestinians to ever have peace.
Iran knew of the 10/7, and I believe, facilitated it to destroy the Abraham Accords. This wasn't a 'remember us'. it was the first of two Iranian attacks on Israel. The truth is coming out, and I believe your version isn't it.
Instead of ascribing adjectives to Evans's writing, why don't you actually try to counter it? Where is he wrong? Point it out with facts.
Or you could stick with the childish insults.
OK, let me try. Jon (& others - here’s looking at you Bruce) advocate bombing Iran (& Gaza) to eliminate the threat. In 1961, the commandant of the USMC, Gen. Matthew Ridgeway, did a memorable map overlay of Cuba onto the U.S. to show Republican voices calling for an invasion just what it would mean: Cuba stretches from New York all the way to Chicago. Iran stretches from Boston to Oklahoma City. Iran has 90 million people. Bombing them “back to the Stone Age” is a feel-good emotional outburst but as a strategy, it is fatuous. One more thing: the Iranian people are no more “guilty” along with the ayotollahs than are the Venezuelans, Russians, Nicaraguans, Belorussians, “guilty” of the crimes of their leaders. We did try to bomb the Germans and Japanese “back to the Stone Age” in WW2; were they “guilty”? Possible - they voted for their leadership before the war - but even there, such elections were no more free and fair than they are today in China. Hitler set up Dachau two weeks after being appointed Chancellor in 1933; do you think any sane German would risk voting against him after that?
Iran’s leaders are obsessional fanatics but bombing the people is not only immoral, it’s a losing play.
Dear Iran,
Thanks for the brisk workout. We'll return the favour soon, giving you an opportunity to see just how effective your own drone and missile defence systems are. Good luck.
Israel
We need to hear Catherine Herridge’s voice on all of this. She’s the best of the best and at a time like this, her voice should not be silenced. The Free Press should please hire her!
Yes, Catherine Herridge would be a great addition to TFP.
Steve, as a former television reporter, I’m sure Herridge’s compensation package would be substantial. But given the meteoric rise of the Free Press, adding a journalist of Herridge’s reputation and capabilities would surely catapult this site into the stratosphere. It would also prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that new media is thriving while old media is collapsing.
According to Wikipedia, "Some CBS staffers and Democrats accused Herridge of promoting Republican talking points..." I take this to mean she isn't sufficiently ideologically captured in the eyes of the woke--which suggests there's a fighting chance she can be relied upon to be objective.
Boy, it says so much when staffers at a news agency "accuse" someone of supporting _even an idea_ from the other side.
Good reminder to never trust CBS as anything other than partisan propaganda.
Shame on CBS for locking her out of her office and then allowing the FBI & others to see her sources. That’s against the Constitution which allows for a Free Press! Herridge is willing to go to jail to protect her sources, which makes her a hero and makes CBS the equivalent of Pravda.
“And Olivia Reingold on the Americans cheering it on.”
———————————————————-
Like, for example, Barack Hussein Obama, who, when he isn’t attending a Black Supremacist ‘Church’ and retrieving the corpses of paddle boarders from his Netflix Pond, is not only cheering them on but also funding them.
You are the target for this “Free Press” page. Congratulations. The hate and misinformation will continue to flow through a conduit like you.
Imagine Mary’s reaction if a document surfaced where Trump admitted he’s gay and then they fished a gay guy out of a water hazard at one of his golf courses:
😂😂😂😂
Wait…..is ‘Mary Sherman’ the ‘MS’ in MSNBC?
🤣🤣
That’s a game that only idiots engage in.
Uh, pssst, Marilyn.
You did.
Mary Sherman Neurotic Bolshevism Clay
MSNBC
Wait a minute! I thought you eschewed insults and here you are insulting people by calling them idiots.
Please explain or better yet apologize.
OTH, I'm glad you are here. We need a contrarian voice on TFP. Don't let us run you off.
Kevin get bored and needs an easy target otherwise he starts knitting booties.
"The hate and misinformation will continue to flow through a conduit like you."
(?) You betray confusion here too, Marilyn. Saying we're 'misinformed' is a convenient shorthand for saying we've received information that's inaccurate, incomplete, or in some other way unreliable. But it doesn't follow from this conventional language usage that there's such a thing as 'misinformation.' Ontologically, the word designates a null set (there are plenty of these: 'square circles;' 'married bachelors;' 'the king of America;' 'your pet dinosaurs;' etc.). Everything without exception that impinges on your consciousness qualifies as information; and what we're normally concerned to know about an item of information are its reliability, utility, relevance, and so on, things that can only be established by empirical investigation.
It's exactly this kind of investigation the 'misinformation' label is intended to prevent. The label is a censorship tool that pretends we already have answers to questions we haven't even been allowed to ask yet. If you believe in free speech you'll stop collaborating in the use of this deceptive language. Just give us uncensored information, please, and we'll decide for ourselves to what extent it's true or false, misleading or a reliable guide to decision-making. Each individual in a democracy has not only a right but a responsibility to keep him/herself informed; and the last thing any democracy needs is a bureaucratic layer of official 'truth police' expropriating this responsibility and exercising it on citizens' behalf.
As for 'hate,' claims about this emotion are always all the better for proof. Pick out any argument made in this forum and show what debt, if any, its premises or logical form owe to hatred. Take your time.
But we have been 'misinformed' here. It's 110% Israel, and shut down free speech of anyone protesting Israel. No mea culpas about bad information that has been published. And a reliable comments section to call all naysayers Jew-haters and antisemites.
I'm not taking any position on whether on not anybody has been misinformed. I'm saying that, either way, there's no such entity as 'misinformation,' no matter how often the word is rammed down our throats.
Don't be misled by this treacherous word's ubiquity. Remember Nietzsche: "An error that becomes respectable is an error that possesses one seductive charm more." How many times have you heard someone say that something "begs the question," thinking this means "raises the question?" It doesn't. To beg the question is to assume that which was to be proved, which is a logical fallacy.
Are you the designated fact checker! All I know is all the misinformation and “conspiracy theories “ keep proving true, explain that Marylyn.
Hope everyone enjoyed the fireworks show. Both the rockets and Iron Dome are funded by US taxpayer dollars, while we are $34 trillion in debt and adding another $1 trillion every few months. Don't forget to file by tomorrow's deadline!
Iron dome is a joint venture of Israel and the US. The US gets a battle tested multilayered defense without having to risk US lives. Which now appears to have a 99% success rate. Not bad for a joint venture...
How is the Iron Dome defending the US? It defends Israel, not the US. If we’re paying for it, we should stop.
I disagree. Israel is constantly under attack of rockets and missiles. That is battle testing the technology; not just pretending to battle test it. We end up with a better defense system learning from what went well (and what did not go so well).
Yes, they are under threat. And they are rich. They can pay for their own shit.
Not my point. I agree we should not be subsidizing Israel in general. But this is a joint venture to develop a missile defense system. I'm a fan of having this technology work for the US. We have obtained a lot of technology that was developed by Israel for military purposes that is now used for civilian purposes, such as (by example) medical treatment devices an systems.
Alternatively, we could just let bombs rain down indiscriminately on unprotected Israeli civilians. That would serve the cause of 'social justice,' I guess.
If that was to happen, there would be a rush on medical facilities near US universities and the NYT office building, due to all those erections lasting more than 4 hours.
Oh, you're wicked.
(?) The post you're responding to explains America's interest in the matter. The explanation is adequate... which leaves your reading comprehension...
My reading comprehension is fine. Your argument is that we test these systems by seeing how well they work when Israel uses them to defend Israel. That is not the same thing as using them to defend the US. It’s just a weapons testing program. When we use this same argument to justify sending/paying for weapons to Ukraine people like you complain that we should stop. So the argument works for weapons to Israel, but not for Ukraine?🇺🇦
The difference is that Israel actually developed the system. They are very capable with technology. We get their R&D. Ukraine, OTOH, is very good and gangsters, black markets, and corruption. They are completely dependent on the US and Europe for their defense systems. So, to be blunt, we spend over ten times more on a bottomless hole in Ukraine than we do for Israel's military technology.
Good to know you've swallowed the Russian propaganda hook, line and sinker. Forget about all the progress the Ukrainians have made to meet every benchmark anyone has asked of them for entry into NATO, the EU or the UN, which doesn't recognize the illegal military seizures by Russia of Crimea and the Donbas. In the meantime we have been propping up Israel for over 80 years and they still ask for more and more and more. The British military in charge of Mandatory Palestine told London that their proposals for Israel, if enacted, would result in death and destruction for 100 years or more, and they were right.
(?) I haven't yet advanced any argument, Ms. P. And how do you know what I'm like, or what I complain about? As far as I can tell, you're simply arbitrarily limiting the meaning of 'defend' (not a word I used: instead, I drew attention to Americans' legitimate "interest" in the battlefield functionality of the weapons systems they've developed) to exclude anything that isn't actual ordinance use by Americans in, over or beside America itself, which certainly wouldn't be a military strategist's understanding of the term.
The fact that your reading comprehension and psychic skills seem on a par suggests that relying on the latter to compensate for the former will profit you little. What you might find more useful when responding to posts is doing so relevantly, as opposed to indulging pet peeves and/or otherwise embarking on irrelevant side-excursions. Frankly, I have no interest in your views on Ukraine or your speculations about mine; but if you want to know what qualifies as an argument I might be able to help you there. Among many good books on the subject, Irving M. Copi's Introduction to Logic is a reasonable starting-point... though of course one has to be able to comprehend its contents.
Annual costs:
Cost of aid for Iron Dome - $0.16 billion
Cost of aid to Israel - $3-10 billion
Cost of aid to Ukraine - $60 billion
Cost of US defense budget - $820 billion
Cost of Social Security and Medicare - $2150 billion
While we are $34 trillion ($34,000 billion) in debt, it's not because of Iron Dome. $34 trillion would fund Iron Dome for the next 210,000 years. Trying being a budget hawk about something more meaningful, or you're just using that as an excuse to be anti-Israel.
Wow. Even in an informative post, you can't resist the temptation to call someone an antisemite.
he said "Anti-Israel" not "Anti-Jew".
Good point. I guess I have become inured by all the "antisemite" and "Jew-hater" insults that usually greet any criticism of the government or leadership of Israel.
There are people who feel that way, But, I don't subscribe to it. Of course you can criticize Israel without being Anti-Jew, just like you can criticize Iran without being anti-Muslim (I mean, not if you are in Iran).
Any country one can criticize while a citizen living in it has a lot going for it to start with. Israel has it all over Iran on that one.
You want to know what I think about your opinion of me? I don't.
I don't have an opinion of you. How could I? I just pointed out the obvious.
Must be a huge disappointment to the progressives, particularly the Squad, that Iran's attack against the West failed.
That’s the trouble with this site, it has no intention of clear reporting. This article is as offensive as your pretenses and hate against your fellow American citizens.
I'm not the one chanting "Death to America." The leftist progressives you're defending by trying to claim they're conservatives-in-disguise are.
I must have missed that video of AOC chanting Death to America.
Serious question, are you defending Death to America? Is there some context missing here that the reporter missed? Can you fill us in?
Yes, there is significant context missing. For instance, we have a Bill of Rights that ensures rights, including that of free speech.
I don't support "Death to America." However, I do defend the right of someone to say it, as I hope you do. Free speech is easy to love when everyone thinks--and speaks--like you do. When the differences arrive, that's when our commitment to our Constitution gets more challenging, but worth it.
Let me clarify, we can have a discussion about the limits of free speech if you want. However my question is what issue Marilyn Sherman Clay has with the reporting "that's the trouble with this site, it has no intention of clear reporting..." Is there another side to this she (or you) can shed some light on (that somehow the reporting aggregiously missed)?k
The Free Press's reporting, which comes across much like PR work for Bibi, is astonishingly biased toward Israel. There is no meaningful critique of Israel's actions, there is a lashing out at those in the US who protest Israel. When I open The Free Press and see an article about Israel/Gaza, I might as well be reading a memo from AIPAC or the ADL.
That's another interesting topic to discuss. How do you think that relates to progressives chanting Death to Israel Death to America in Farsi? did the reporting in this story miss something? Or in general, you feel that there's another reasonable narrative out there which isn't being put forth in TFP and while this specific story might be ok this other point of view is never really presented?
Thank you…I’m confused too.
Please see my response to Daniel.
Did you even read the article? It was a meeting held in a basement of a Teamsters building in Chicago. The first paragraph explains it very clearly. She says the meeting was held to discuss their plans for disrupting the DNC in August. She says "over 300 people" attended. The death to America et al chanting happened when someone in the room announced that the attack had been launched. There is no missing context. Maybe you are just really bad with reading comprehension?
What was offensive about this article to you?
Israel attacked Iran in Syria. That's what started this. But what we get is "unprecedented" attack from Iran on Israel. That's very one-sided. Whether that deliberate ignorance of facts is offensive is in the eye of the beholder. But the article, like everything about Israel in TFP, is studded with wrong or missing data.
What started this was Iran attacking Israel in Israel through Hamas.
The Iranian missile attack is unprecedented in that it is a direct assault on Israel launched from Iranian territory.
Do you deny that Hezbollah and Hamas and Ansar Allah and many more militias attacking Israel are direct Iranian proxies? To a large part being coordinated by Iran?
I suspect there is a great amount of truth to that, Daniel. So do you think that bombing Iran in Syria is the right response to that proxy support?
Does this mean that Russia should let its missiles fly at the US because we are funding and coordinating Ukraine in a proxy war?
I think this was the right response. They were killed in a country which over the course of this conflict has launched missiles at Israel. So they were in a country planning attacks on Israel in a country which has attacked Israel on multiple times over the past half year. Sounds like fair game to me. The same attack in Iran itself? Harder to defend.
Your question about applying this to US/Ukraine is food for thought. I'd like to ponder before I reply.
Did somebody recruit you as the poster girl for progressive puerility?
This all distracts from the facts that Iranian Back terrorists are now holding 5 Americans and 100's of others hostage in Gaza. Let's focus on those people and say a prayer for them today. If you want peace in the Middle East it starts there.
Israel took out a legitimate military target in a Iranian embassy in less than civilized country, where terrorist groups control large areas. Iran proxies invaded Israel killed, raped, committed horrendous acts on innocent people and kidnapped children and civilians. Iran fired weapons, not at military targets in Israel but at civilian populations. There is no equivocation -- Iran does not follow "modern norms" It's aim is the destruction if Israel and we have Left wing loonies who support them -- some of who are in our State Department and Pentagon.
So it's OK to attack embassies if the embassy is of a nation you don't like, and the embassy sits in a nation you don't like?
Do you see any downside of various nations seeing things that way, that embassies are fair game?
Iran attacked Israel on Oct 7th through its proxies controlled by the targeted officers of their military, thus their embassy and military personnel are fair game. Iran fired 300 ordinances on Sunday at civilian targets but more their proxies have fire thousands of ordinances at civilians since 10/7.
So, according to my paid subscription to The Washington Post, the REAL reason Iran attacked Israel is that (wait for it...hold your breath), Israel ATTACKED IRAN !! So it is only Israel to blame!!
Cancel your paid subscription to WaPo. I was as a paid subscriber for years. Trust me. You'll feel better.
I did...and I do.
Yup.
They have a new much better ceo now
Israel hit Iran's embassy in Syria to kill a high ranking official.
That is most definitely a serious provocation and an act of war. I imagine the IDF justifies it through the accurate claim that Iran has been abusing diplomatic and humanitarian cover to conduct its terrorist and military operations.
That's where the UN is supposed to come down on them with a massive hammer to prevent such abuse, but they're busy writing more condemnations of Israel, and the IDF has had enough of it.
It was not an embassy. It was a building rented by Iranians. Only military officials who were involved in planning and organizing October 7th attack were hit.
Thanks for the correction!
Anthony,
This young Iranian woman explains it a hell of a lot better than I can (don't get distracted by her looks): https://twitter.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1779697432130928852
"The Instagram School of Law" HAH!
Thanks for sharing. This woman is great.
Perhaps it was reported that way because it happened that way. Israel attacked Iran in Syria. Iran responded. Is this difficult to understand?
Iranian trained and equipped terrorists attacked Israel on October 7th.
We could go on liket his for eons - much like the hatred that defines that corner of the world, unfortunately.
Builttoill:
Listen to what this young Iranian woman has to say. It's also not difficult to understand:
https://twitter.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1779697432130928852
Iran hasn’t been hiding in any shadows since 1979 when they took our embassy (an act of war since its sovereign territory of the United States). And Jimmy Carter has his feckless response that ended in the desert. Only the Democrats and swamp dwelling Republicans think Iran can be made a civilized nation.
War in the Middle East is breaking out and we're on the verge of an international disaster, and Fox News Sunday this morning spent half the time with their panel discussing abortion? Are you kidding us FN? It's become obvious they're becoming a shill for the Democrat Party just as all the MSM have.
They no longer advertise themselves as 'Fair & Balanced', or 'We Report You Decide.'
There is a large void in America for impartial journalism. Where indeed have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?
I promise you that Fox “News” has not become a shill for the Democratic Party. They are Putin all the way, with each and every panel they present to their willing idiots.
Putin is none of our business. Neither is the Ukraine. This is Germany’s problem. We should cut off all funding for Ukraine and force the EU to defend themselves. Too bad, when they do this, the Turks will rush in and shout Allahu Ackar and capture Berlin and Paris. Importing Muslims is suicidal.
Their new slogan needs to be "Controlled Opposition"
It was pathetic.
Joe has joined The Free Press.
It is interesting that Iran issued a statement saying that this was their last attack for the time being. I wonder if they expected it to be so ineffective.
I look forward to reading the thoughtful, non-politically deranged comments.
I think they are confused by Biden's responses and elimination of the sanctions and did not know if the US would help Israel at all. They certainly didn't expect Jordan to help. Nor was their expectation that this attack was anything more than a signal.
They're in this for the long haul. What they're doing is testing defenses, testing alliances, testing how Biden will react since the Dearborn Alliance seems to have his ear these days.
When Israel strikes back, probably against the nuclear sites, they will activate other pieces of their alliance, most likely starting with Hezbollah in Lebanon. Hezbollah could start tonight for all we know. Iran's been building up a tremendous arsenal there, making sure it's stored behind women and children, as always. Gotta keep the media sympathetic.
Great points.
I'm wondering to what degree the attack was to save face with their people. Iranians must be furious over the attack on their embassy, and the Ayatollah needs to give them something.
I expected the attack to at least do _some_ damage but I hear the only casualty was a single 10-year-old girl. Good job, Iran. How many billions did you just spend to shred up a single girl?
Seems to me the best thing now would be exactly what Biden said; "take the win, Israel." I'm surprised to find that in the one matter of USA and Israel, I'm impressed at the job Biden has done and I actually think he's personally involved to a degree.
(when he's hyped up on drugs enough to be conscious, obvsiously)
What Jim Gindin said. And also what Remesh said.
Because this is how Iran operates, posture militantly for domestic and regional consumption and then respond within parameters that are under the threshold for starting a war. They are so adept at using their proxies and will let them continue the work.
We don’t yet know how much they knew the US would be involved but there are direct US-Iran channels of communication, and possibly some of that info was communicated to Israel. However the amount of explosives fired last night is exceptional and could have absolutely caused military and civilian damages, so it was for them unprecedented. With the US putting pressure on Israel not to respond and Iran saying they are “done” it signals that the next step will be an escalation taken by Israel and therefore unjustified.
It just interesting how the Iron Dome suddenly makes it okay to bomb Israel in the eyes of many. If every single bomb hit its target hundreds would be dead and a major war would be underway.
Would Iran still have done it then? If they knew it would mean full scale war.
If they did expect it would work and there would be mass death. Then this would be quite the wake call about having lack luster offense.
I suspect they thought some would get through, but they are well aware of Iron Dome. Iron Dome is not perfect. But, last night, there were also a lot of fighter aircraft in the air doing the shooting down. Iron dome was just the ones the pilots did not get. They probably anticipated the aircraft too. Maybe these were their older missiles and drones, and they don't care if they are wasted?
Fun fact about Iran. They have a factory there that makes Israel and American flags so that they will have a supply to burn on these types of occasions.
The performance of all of this is striking. To what extent were damage or casualties anticipated by Iran or the US.
Could also be that for 6 months their proxies get all the spotlight and some reports say that Iran has less control of them, and they needed to make a big show.
If Iran was performing to impress, that was not impressive. Maybe as a light show?
It was impressive and scary enough. It cost Israel $1billion dollars to play defense. In one night. And it seems to have regional players worried. If this is Iran’s introduction to the hot war what else does it intend to do
I think it was an intentionally weak retaliation simply to "save face." They don't want to escalate.
One wonders why so many (all?) the participants at the uplifting meeting are wearing masks. Does it have to do with what they inhale or what they exhale?
I'd guess those brave revolutionaries are afraid of being identified.
I’m impressed by the absolute acceptance of the “information” about this meeting. Who are they? How many? Where? What was the make-up of this organization?
Did you not actually read the article? She names names of people, she states affiliations, she names the groups that are there. Now absent every one being arrested finger printed and unmasked. What else do you want?
And the dateline was Chicago that’s where
Extremists on the left want Islam to take America and extremists on the right want to hand it over to Russia. We're in deep shit.
Please spare us the war propaganda about "Putin and the right wingers".
I thought that garbage was over with the Mueller report.
Did someone say propaganda? https://thehill.com/homenews/media/4465352-tucker-carlson-moscow-putin/
Yes, I'm aware that Tucker participated in Russian propaganda, and that he used it to criticize Democrats. Tucker is a TV show with an audience smaller than a good Korean dance studio on TikTok. He does not represent the tens of millions of people you call 'right wing.'
We heard at least five years of lies and conspiracy theories associating Russia and conservatives before Tucker made his trip. Most of that was deliberate conspiracy theory seeded by Democrat leadership, and they're still trying to play up the same narrative. Tucker capitalized on it by playing into their hand, and made a ton of money doing it.
If you have real insights or criticisms into the right-wing Russia relationship, we're all interested in hearing it, but hyperbolic nonsense like "right wingers want Russia to take over" is garbage and unwelcome.
CNN's average prime-time viewership is a bit over 500,000. The History Channel has bigger numbers. MSNBC and Fox News get about a million each.
And that's in prime time. Tucker has had numbers over 100 million for one show. He had a show interviewing Ice Cube recently; it had over 6 million views.
Totally right, he has a tiny audience and no one listens to him.
Mr. Beast gets over 100 million views on almost every one of his videos. His views dwarf the Tucker Show by orders of magnitudes. The channels you refer to have multiple outlets compared to Tucker's one.
Also, Tucker is not an extremist and does not want Russia taking over the US. He has condemned Putin in no uncertain terms.
I've never watched Mr. Beast. What am I missing?
Please read it again. I said 'extremists". That was intentional, so as not to denigrate the sensible people on both sides.
Democrats refer to all Republicans as "extremists", so that didn't achieve the messaging you intended.
I apologize for being intentional and specifc with my language and still having my message mininterpreted because of other people's assumptions about my political leanings. You're right. That's 100% on me. I'll try harder next time.
Common Russian people are often Orthodox Christians. We share that experience in overall Church of Jesus. All Christian denominations flow from Judaism with the birth and death of Jesus, and we will be united again at the end of the age before the second coming of King Jesus.
We have absolutely nothing in common with Islam but continuing warfare for the last 1,400 years.
Hagar, was the concubine of our Patriarch Abraham . His wife Sarai was barren. She told her husband to take a concubine to have heirs. The concubine was Hagar and she bore Ishmael, the father of Arabs. The ancient warfare between Jews and Arabs started 4,000 years ago. And still continues. History matters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagar
ok
Sorry Jalalala,
I replied to myself and not to you. See what it says, if you please to look. Good evening.
That is not true.
You keep claiming that none of the comments here are true, but you’re not explaining why they’re wrong. Please back up what you’re saying if you’re calling out the comments and calling the article propaganda.
Well, when one says "Extremists on the left want Islam to take America...," I didn't see your comment demanding proof. So you only want proof when someone thinks differently than you?
Which part? Or, all of it?
It's been clear that Iran can never be allowed to have a nuclear weapon. This is the perfect opportunity for Israel to end it's program.'
'I'm guessing they've been sitting on a plan for years, and this is the perfect opportunity to trigger it.