"And that the former president is criticizing American Jews for being ungrateful, commanding them to show him proper respect—and issuing a veiled threat if they do not."
But this isn't an accurate summary based on what he said. Trump is basically saying "Jews should stop voting for Democrats, it's me that has been helping Israel." And I agree with Trump - Democrats have absolute Anti-Semites in elected office.
I added in a few more lines to fully clarify my position, T Reid. You can see them above but I'm also noting them here: (His staunchest supporters may insist that Trump’s warning “Before it is too late!” meant “Before it is too late for America” or perhaps “too late for Israel,” the implication being that Biden isn’t as supportive of the Jewish state and so Jews need to support Trump. However you read the opaque missive, the toxic notion of the ungrateful Jew is unambiguous.)
I read the statement as, "Democrat administrations will not come to Israel's aid, and Israel will most certainly need it someday."
This is a warning for you, done with the best interests of Israel in mind.
You might see that perspective if you don't interpret everything Trump says in the worst possible way. Others don't see that.
Trump made great strides for peace in the Middle East, got nothing in return but fury and hatred, and the new administration is back to waging war. China is salivating. Some of Israel's enemies are as well.
The white evangelical man is one of the few identities truly on the side of Israel. Your party assaults us and disempowers us relentlessly, turning our own country against us. When your defenders are weak, what happens next, Bari?
You might know the saying:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make hard times, hard times make strong men."
Ignore these warnings at your peril. We're on your side.
You know they support Israel because they want Amageddon and Jesus to come back, so all the Christians get Raptured up to heaven and the Jews get sent to hell, right?
Don't support/not support - have no dog in the fight.
Which is SOOOO much better than fake-ass disingenuous support and claims of "love." - when it's really nothing more than an End Times /Armageddon support, so Jesus comes back and raptures the Christians up to heaven and sends the Jews to hell.
First of all, I'm an American Jew. As an American Jew, I am more worried about the continuation of our Democracy, and global warming, than I am about any other issues.
Additionally, I would point out that Biden has done more than Trump for Israel. According to the Joint Declaration:
"...Israel thanks the United States for its ongoing and extensive support for deepening and broadening the historic Abraham Accords. The countries affirm that Israel’s peace and normalization agreements with the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, and Morocco constitute a critical addition to Israel’s strategic peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, all of which are important to the future of the Middle East region and to the cause of regional security, prosperity, and peace...."
The Trump administration orchestrated the very peace framework that the Biden administration reaffirmed. That’s your definition of the superior contribution? Wow. Now that’s some mental gymnastics.
Yes! Apparently not an American Jew who actually knows anything about the Abraham accords.. prob because the left mainstream media only gave it sound bites in their reporting..
I grew up in Chicago. It's always been a corrupt place, but corruption there used to be "pay me and I will help you". Now that corruption has adopted the Dem mantra "pay me or I will stop you".
Not stopping something is not the equivalent of doing something.
Just this one point. The lynchpin of the continuation and success of the Abraham Accords rests on a positive relationship with Saudi Arabia. For all his pluses and minuses it's pretty clear that Biden has seriously damaged our relationship with the Saudis.
Biden has sure helped Israel. From Robert Hubbell's substack of yesterday:
For reasons that remain unclear but maddening, the media has again ignored another major achievement by President Biden. Max Boot discusses a diplomatic agreement brokered by the US that has eluded previous administrations for forty years. See Max Boot, Washington Post, Opinion | Biden just pulled off a big diplomatic victory — and almost no one noticed. The agreement relates to a seemingly technical issue (a maritime demarcation) between two countries that have no diplomatic relations—Israel and Lebanon. As Boot explains,
Trump and Netanyahu couldn’t get a deal done; Biden and [Israeli Prime Minister] Lapid did. Israel’s security establishment is firmly in favor of the deal not only because it will help safeguard Israel’s natural gas fields but also because it will help bolster the Lebanese government and economy. Israel does not want a failed state next door.
“Lebanon has, for the first time, entered a kind of de facto recognition of Israel and its borders,” writes Daniel B. Shapiro, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel.
That’s something for which the Biden administration deserves a lot of credit — just as the Trump administration deserved credit for the Abraham Accords. It just goes to show that diplomacy does pay off sometimes — even if we don’t always give it the attention it deserves.
"I am more worried about the continuation of our Democracy"
It is not possible to pretend that Democrats care more about genuine democracy than Republicans do. The rejection of all votes and institutions that do not go their way is not only present in their camp; it's the majority opinion.
I feel bad that Bari Weiss has so many readers who, like you in this case, make nasty comments rather than good arguments. She deserves better in her readers.
Yeah, I am no fan of Trump but what he is saying does not bother me. Basically just self-promoting rhetoric, and he is not totally wrong either. It is incorrect to read it as a slur against Jews, and Trump, though a man of questionable character, is by no means an enemy of Jews.
West and other rappers seem like such non-entities to me I can't believe anybody cares what they say, but agree, his comments are straight-up anti-semitic (in addition to being somewhat incoherent). Being a child of the sixties I can remember when black people made music that astounded the whole world. Now it's just rap garbage.
Yeah…. I’m an Israeli and Jewish and not a trump fan. I’ve reread the statement a few times. I still don’t see the problem. I actually kind of agree with him. Any president hell-bent on resurrecting the JCPOA is also hell-bent on funding Israel’s destruction. I don’t care how much ice cream Biden eats he’s no friend of Israel.
And the new administration is back to waging war, Anthony? Where?
In the Middle East?
Or do you equate 'waging war' as aiding in the defence of a country under an unprovoked attack from a larger neighbour?
Would you not want to aid Ukraine? If you accept the consequences of Russia's invasion going unanswered, you invite the very 'China salivating' situation you cite..
Why in good god's name would you think American Jews, of which I am one, WANT Israel to disappear? Some left-wingers would dance in the streets if every Israeli were murdered so "the poor beleaguered noble Palestinian" could rise from the ashes to Make Palestine Great Again. But they are a nutty, appalling minority who take up far more media space than they deserve.
Trust me, we want nothing to do with the notion that Israel needs to die so "the real people of Palestine" can live.
Why do American Jews keep voting for politicians who actively support regimes who want to destroy Israel? (and are largely antisemitec on domestic policy)
The only answer I can come up with is they would be ok with that result. I'm thinking you may be in a minority.
I appreciate the clarification. I suppose "toxic notion" is a new version of the old "dog whistle" thing? Which means, "He's not saying what I wanted him to say, so I will say it for him and give it a name to justify doing so." There is no way to read Trump's statement as A) a threat or B) an accusation of "ungrateful Jew" (your words, not his).
I'm afraid we are at the point of no return. Even if republicans are the majority, this doesn't rid the rot happening in corporations, colleges and K-12. There's also countless nonprofits and civil service jobs filled with progressives / leftists/ liberals. Their ideology is baked into all segments of society and they are not willing to loosen their grip on our children who they are relying on to turn on those who refuse to go along with the madness.
We CANNOT give up and give in, roll over and die!! EVERYTHING we do counts.
PRAY.
VOTE REPUBLICAN. Even if your only candidate is repugnantican.
Run for office!
And there are countless other ways we fight back. Take on the costs of home- or alternative schooling of our children. Take great care in our consumer and electronic/tech habits. SPEAK OUT everywhere!
I don't listen to The Donald anymore. Face it the guy is an asshole. However, he has a large following who hang om his every word so you can't discount him.
The few times I did listen to him, I got pissed off--not by what he said, but because, as you accurately point out, he's an asshole.
I didn't vote for him because I thought he'd be good dinner or cocktail party company. I voted for him because I thought he'd do a much better job than the competition. I still think that. I don't think that being an asshole should disqualify someone from being president. Sometimes we ~need~ an asshole in the Oval Office. And he was very good at that.
I greatly admire the job he did and how he did it. And he's still an asshole.
Agree. He's an asshole and a bully. I also voted for him the last time as the lesser of two undesirable choices; but when you've been bullied for too long and need someone to help you end the bullying, who do you enlist; some conciliatory lifetime politician or another bully, your bully. Yes, sometimes you need a bigger and better bully to defeat another bully. Dinesh D'Souza says that because the left has the biggest megaphones (the Media, Hollywood, and Academia) and have been bringing knives to a fist fight for decades, Republican candidates (like Romney) have campaigned with fear and timidity and lost; but that Trump won because he refused to play by these rules and because his narcissism and egotism is his strength when dealing with the bullying Leftist rhetoric of false narratives. Trump, says D'Souza, won because he was a tough guy who can take a punch and give one back. Trump succeeded against the dishonest and bullying Left because his ego enabled him to move relentlessly forward when attacked. In Trump, Republicans found someone who could finally counter the dirty fighting from the Left. Leftists who know I voted for Trump ask me why I'm not bothered by Trump's lack of decorum and if I think his tweets are beneath the dignity of the office; and I tell them that I didn't find anything dignified about Obama's lying about what happened in Ferguson in order to ramp up racial hatred that serves the Democrat Party; and I tell them that there's nothing dignified in weaponizing the IRS to destroy Obama's political opponents and silence dissent. The Left has been engaged in a war with America for 60 years; a war they've fought with violence, threats, demagoguery, and lies; and a war they've been fighting without opposition for 6 decades. Yes Trump can be vulgar, crude, and undignified but he fights for an America that the Left wants to destroy. Ulysses Grant was a drunk and had Lincoln applied peacetime rules of propriety and booted Grant, the Democrats might well still be holding their slaves today. Lincoln rightly recognized that, "I cannot spare this man. He fights!"
Isn't it clear that the near term threat is to Israel? How far away is Iran from an atomic or nuclear weapon? Biden has helped Iran to move towards its genocidal goal of destroying Israel.
Speak for yourself. There's a growing population of American Jews who are no longer "liberal." We've seen what that translates to and it's not very pretty, welcoming, or safe. Get used to the fact that no one's looking out for us. Playing nice certainly doesn't work. Take off the gloves.
("..no one is looking out for us...") You are correct Sir.
Flipping it: We aren't looking out for ourselves. ("..Take off the gloves..") the
My continual rant: The anti-human IMF/WEF/CCP Juggernaut (international criminal finance) is attempting world domination and the creation and imposition of a world totalitarian feudalism. They are using tactics (in the 50's they called it "brain washing") developed by Communist ideologues to disassemble the culture and values of nation state's and democratic republics. Globalism and environmentalism is the front they're using.
In a totally compromised political system the only legitimate human frame of reference is the American Constitution and the Bill of Rights it contains.
It’s a riddle wrapped in a mystery, however, strange as it may seem I found a few openly out the closet Trump supporters lately who seem to be much more chatty about President Trump and the positive things he did for America and how his Nostradamus like predictions have played out the last 23 months eg energy shortages southern border and going back to the ridiculous green new deal + how disastrous Brandon would be for our 401k
"ungrateful jews" ... it is difficult to consider Trump an anti-semite when he has, as you noted done so much for peace in the ME. The Abraham Accords are nothing shy of outstanding. Trump identified a voting bloc that he thinks consistently votes against their best interests. He commented on this opinion. It may have been inelegant but it certainly isn't as bad as, "if you don't vote democrat you ain't black!" which uses insulting syntax and condescends an entire race.
A rare miss on this one, Bari. Maybe you needed more words to fill out the piece, but Trump’s commentary was accurate and not some imagined veiled threat. Including Trump’s commentary alongside Kanye’s grossly antisemitic vitriol is making a disingenuous association at best.
That's not at all how I read what you quoted Trump as saying. I see it as a general warning that there are seriously dark forces--as you called them--operating against us. And the idea that we need to do something before it's too late doesn't say anything about Trump. I says a lot about us and our current environment.
My grandfather was born and raised--to about age 14 or 15--in Kishinev. He emigrated to New Orleans in the late 1900s or early 19-teens. He kept trying to persuade the rest of his Kishinev family to come to NOLa, but no joy. In 1927 he took the whole NOLa family there, but again, they remained unpersuaded. When he returned to the US, he kept writing and getting replies to the effect that it's not as bad as it looks.
And then in the mid-'30s the replies suddenly stopped.
In 1946 he got confirmation that the family had been murdered.
He had been telling them to do something before it was too late. He wasn't threatening them; he was trying to make them see what was obvious to him.
Why do you see this as a warning from Trump that he'll do something terrible if...what exactly? We don't vote for him? I think he's pointing out that terrible stuff is going on now and if those of us who don't recognize it and act on it, it's probably going to make the nazi Shoah look like a picnic.
What actions exactly? Voting for democratic candidates in high office is not a smart move. Who was the last effective pro-Israel democratic politico you've seen? You might argue that Clinton was at least marginally effective. But since then? Name one.
I didn't think so.
So, what actions exactly will maximize our safety? Sure as hell isn't voting for more democrats. They've effectively declared war on Jews. Look at congress. Look at the White House. Are you getting a warm fuzzy feeling from them? I'm not. Of the choices available, republicans are the ones most likely to be helpful to us. Playing "but what about?" isn't going to help.
I’m not surprised of Bari’s blind spot, I’m just hoping that she learns something from these discussions. If she walks away having her opinion of this issue unchanged, we failed.
I’m very frustrated that my fellow American Jews cannot separate their politics from what is really important for Israel. It is very disappointing.
It’s been like this for a very long time pre Clinton, what the Democrats never reckoned on was Facebook and Donald Trump, both changed the dynamics of the world completely. Donald for the better Facebook is the cancer!!
Obama put conditions on how the how the money is spent. Now we have the wokees wanting no aid. The Dems can call out islamaphobia, asian hatred, black hatred but not a syllable for Jew hatred.
Get a life, Bari. I'm not Jewish, but I have a number of Israeli frkends, both in Israel and the US. They all are IDF veterans and fought in 1967, 1973, and 1982, and several.of them have the wound scars to.prove it. Although several have advanced degrees from.American universities, and one is a professor at the Technion in Israel,They have little use for college-educated, secular, wealthy, upper middle class and upper.class American Jews. As.one.of them said to me in Tel Aviv in 1994, I couldn't count on an American Jew.of that type in a fight.
Nothing. We have done nothing to ourselves. Please stop already with the groupblame. It's what the antisemites do, blame "the Jews" for "their own problems," and there's too many of those asswipes already.
Americans face hundreds of issues at the ballot box. The fate of Israel is only one of many, and frankly, a small one because Israel can take care of itself. I love Israel and support it in a number of ways. But I don't vote for American presidents based only on what they will do for another country. I was born, raised, and live in America, and vote not for the Knesset, but Congress and the White House.
Voting for Trump doesn't make you a "good" Jew, and voting for Biden doesn't make you a "bad" one. Or, vice-versa. Voting for either has nothing to do with our Jewishness or love of Israel, it's about running our own country.
"They have little use for college-educated, secular, wealthy, upper middle class and upper class American Jews."
They may have "little use" for us, but they happily accept the billions of dollars we raise privately for Israel each and every year, don't they?
Your Israeli friends fought the wars that established and protected the nation. They acquitted themselves superbly. I'm proud of them. But they complain too much about American Jews. We would just as fierce, warlike, and willing to gut the enemy if we were ever in their position: fight or die, kill or be killed, win or lose not just your nation, but your existence.
America has never experienced invasion, conquest, or any foreign attack that threatened our survival. I wouldn't expect any American Jew to be able to fight at the level of an IDF paratrooper. Neither can most Americans, Jewish or not, fight at that level; we've never had the need.
Bari, I am an American Jew who has supported Israel for the last twenty years. My own experience has shown me the vast difference in support for Israel between Evangelical Christians and so many Democrat-voting Jews. Donald Trump is correct. His meaning is clear, unless most Jews start to understand where their huge support of the Democrats is taking them, Israel will lose its only friend in the world. Having spent years combating anti Israel and anti-Semitism on college campuses, it is clear to me that only one party supports this vile behavior on campus and now throughout the US - the Democrats. Republicans and conservatives have NO voice on campus and now, NO voice in any US institution. Please do not conflate Trump and his vast following of Zionists with Kanye West.
I fear for Israel because so many have bought into the Democrat-supported anti-Zionism and now tolerate their anti-Semitism.
The woke left has the Western world chasing the "populist bogeymen" while the woke control the entire narrative and soon, our very lives. Just ask Klaus Schwab, Bill Gates and George Soros, and the countless billionaires and world leaders who are with them. They now can speak more openly because they have less resistance every day. These are the ones in control, not Trump. The powerful enemies of Israel are all Democrats. The Blacks who hate Israel are NOT conservatives like Larry Elder or Candice Owens. And Trump IS loved in Israel!
I am nominating you for “person of the year” best Common Sense award this was brilliant. The people you mention in your post are the very people who are threatening our existence on this planet not climate change. The fact that they locked down a healthy population for 21/2 years starting with Donald Trump in power and then rigging a vote to further lock us down just tells us the power these terrible people have we cannot continue on this path it will be the end of us!!
I would like to ask Bari which group she believes are the best friends that Israel and the Jews have. You know who they are. I wonder if Bair does, or if she would admit it.
Have to disagree, Dennies. Sorry. If Israel were to be attacked, American forces under Biden would be there in 24 hours. And under any Democratic President who may follow.
Why?
Because it would be the very one thing that would unify our country..And a huge win politically.
Ask the Israelis. They MUST live in reality. Remember the Iran deal, and Obama's ignoring the Green Revolution. Trump was genuinely for Israel. That is why they loved his support. The GOP is far more supportive of Israel. The woke Dems have no use for Israel but they do for the Israel-hating George Soros.
I get it, you love Obama and the Dems. Too bad you don't speak for Israel. Their lives are on the line every day. Your life is not. Go to Israel some time and find out the truth. It ain't what you're watching.
Really Lee do you remember Kissinger’s shuttle diplomacy in 1973 the Israelis were nearly overrun by an unprovoked attack on Yom Kippur. While Kissinger was very busy diplomatically for nearly two weeks America refused to send ammunition, in fact when did the situation change when General Sharon surrounded the third army only then did America send fresh supplies. So no I don’t think the Biden administration would be there for Israel politically or military you only need to see the Iran deal. I don’t think Israel exist to unite the American people that’s the American people’s job which I might add we not doing to well because of shockingly bad leadership currently .
Very good point, Skinny. America was indeed late in aiding Israel in 1973. But when we did it helped turn the tide. My memory is not entirely accurate, but I do recall Nixon raising our nuclear response level high enough to ward off a possible Soviet intervention on the part of the Egyptians..
You know the support for Israel by GOP/white Evangelicals is because the need to have the Rapture occur, where Jesus returns, the Christians ascend to heaven and the Jews are sent hell, except for a small minority that will suffer through the Tribulation until they convert and are saved, right?
The Left Behind series are fiction, and they are definitely fringe beliefs. Catholics, the largest Christian denomination for example, don't accept that.
Can't believe Bari came out of the woodwork all the sudden, Lynn?
Hmmm.....trying to "cancel" people....criticizing their "Free Speech"....trying to shut down "tough conversations".....I wonder why this time is different?
Lol. Yeah. She's the hypocrite I said she was, and so are you.
This is a minefield into which I tread with trepidation. Bari, we love you but this would have been far more powerful if you had kept Trump out of it. Pew reported that before the 2020 presidential election, nearly three-quarters of Jewish adults disapproved of the job Trump was doing as president, while just 27% rated him positively – far below the 65% who approved of President Barack Obama’s job performance in 2013. Despite Trump's unprecedented support of Israel - the Jewish state - by moving the embassy, supplying military aid and fomenting the peace deals with Arab states. So it's a fair political point despite what you think of the man who made it.
Kanye's statements are something entirely different. He may be troubled but he is also routinely feted and lionized in certain quarters. And the beast that he was feeding is awakening in a very frightening pace; not least among those institutions of "higher learning" that should know better. Kanye's points weren't political but rather of they type that led to pogroms and worse. The danger in them needs to be taught, especially to the young who don't remember why we say "never again."
I modified what I posted above, in particular for You, Sir Bruce.
I normally try to read most-a the comments on these articles. I'll skip it this time, because they're most 100% predictable. You in the MAGA crowd simply go ballistic and berserk when the least bit of negativity comes up about Your HERO, the Donald.
The problem is: You're, basically, no better than the Woke acolytes when it comes to being delusional. Sorry if that hurts Your feelings, but it's true. Your delusions are certainly *different* than, and pretty much the opposite of, the delusions of the Woke. But delusions are delusions.
Simple litmus test:
Why didn't Trump just tell Jewish people to dump the Dems and vote for him? Why call them ungrateful?
Answer: As one poster wrote, all he wants is loyalty and devotion. Funny how that's *exactly* what the MAGA crowd gives him, whether he deserves it or not.
How many times have a read how Trump is an arsehole, written by somebody who voted for him. Who doesn't like him, *personally,* but voted for him. Weeeell, You liked him enough to vote for him, right? A guy who tried to overthrow the elected President. That's the sad, but indisputable fact of the matter.
And let's be honest, okay? You'll vote for him again, right? The guy that, not only threatened, but attempted, to overthrow the Constitutionally-elected government. Funny how many-a You claim to support the Constitution. Hypocrisy being one-a the oldest delusions ever, right?
Now, we went back and forth about whether what Trump did was *legal* or not. The guy that came up with the plan, John Eastman, tried to disavow his actions after the plan fell through. He's a constitutional lawyer, so that tells me a lot.
So I think Bari makes a pretty good point. When it's the choice between the Dems and Trump, there isn't muchuva choice between the lesser of two evils. They both feed in the same gutter.
As far as Kanye, I agree with both You and M. Bari. The problem, as I see it, is that Blacks are ascendant these days and can do no wrong. Even when they do wrong, it's not wrong. CAN'T be said to be wrong. That'd be RACIST.
Right? Well, if so, it's gonna take a lotta these kinds-a "racists" to straighten this mess out. All the above IMO, 'course.
Well jt, you have you facts a bit skewed. You say "You liked him enough to vote for him, right? A guy who tried to overthrow the elected President." You forget that the election was in November 2020; January 6th was in 2021. After the election. And no, Trump didn't cover himself in glory but neither did those who screeched it was "an insurrection."
Would I vote for Trump again? In a primary vs. DeSantis. No way. In a general against some leftist Dem who has no business running even a lemonade stand - (think Harris, Buttigieg, Beto et al) yeah probably. Why? Because we'd be in a whole lot better place now if America hadn't elected a senile imbecile. And Biden has threatened civil liberties way more than Trump. In fact, Trump never arrested even one political opponent. Some Orange Dictator.
I didn't get the facts skewed. I didn't write very well. I think the fact that You voted for this charlatan makes it difficult for You to see him objectively. Which is also a fact.
I'm glad You won't vote for a Dem for President. Also happy You won't vote for Trump in the primary, if DeSantis runs. But it's not a question of people covering themselves in glory calling what Trump did an attempted insurrection. It's a question of the facts of the matter and that Trump *did* attempt it.
I can't see how anyone could vote for Trump, after seeing him try that. But, first, You would hafta see Trump objectively enough to know that he did, right? Then it's a question of how can You overlook something like that?
Look jt, Trump should not be President again. For many reasons. He'll be too old. He's too divisive. His embrace of Eastman's goofy plan raises questions about this judgment. We just need new blood. Trump is old news and I wish he had he grace to slip away.
jt you make a mistake in thinking I'm a Trump acolyte or view him as a HERO. If I were, I would want him to run again. I have stated repeatedly here that he is too old and too divisive. If I were, I wouldn't agree with others here that he's kind of an asshole. Does that sound like hero-worship? Sure I voted for him over Biden. What sane person would vote for a senile imbecile, not least the insane policies he mumbled. It's kind of insulting to be called a servile, starry eyed zombie Trumpster when all I did is point out that Trump was making a fair political point while West was summoning a very dark beast. Maybe I'm not the one who leaps to conclusions? Just think about it.
My point was more general than only being directed at You, Sir Bruce.
But if You're gonna vote for Trump in '24, then I think most-a my points stand.
And You're being ridiculous using words like "a servile, starry eyed Zombie Trumpster." But I noticed You didn't answer the question I posed in the litmus test, did You? Trump made a stupid mistake, to call the Jewish people "ungrateful." He had the option to make his point, without slurring a whole group-a people, right?
What if he'd said that about You and Yours? "You're whole 'whatever-group' is a bunch of ungrateful 'whatevers'." Is that really the way to get people to vote for You?
So I'll ask You and anyone who reads this: Why is it simply *impossible* to see that Trump did something pretty foolish. (Going by what M. Weiss posted. Dunno the exact context.) Given there are so many *better* ways of saying that he would like to get their votes.
Nowhere in his tweet did Trump use the word "ingrate." If it's ok to observe that Hispanics are deserting the Democrats because they are antithetical to the values of family and faith and the many Hispanics embrace, then why is it out of bounds to question the continued support by American Jews of Democrats who are antithetical to the best interests of Israel? Or worse, openly anti-Semitic. (the Squad?). Saying Trump was being both misquoted and mistreated doesn't imply unqualified support for him.
Dear jt, I don’t need to re-enter into our friendly debate again, but respectfully,
I just want to affirm that I believe the OPPOSITE is true, that your feelings against Trump have YOU as the blinded one, in spite of all you write (and you *have* written your position well!), but much to all our danger. Thanks and God bless
We are an immovable rock facing an unstoppable force. Trump is a force that needs to be stopped.
Here's the thing. ONE-a us can see that when Trump was President, he did some good things, and he did some bad things. Like any President. You see that? Or not?
But he did one REALLY BAD THING when he tried to overthrow the Constitutionally elected government. This is a FACT. It's INDISPUTABLY a fact.
Or do You deny this is a fact?
Or do You give Trump a pass on trying to ignore a democratic election?
I don't recall You ever facing these (in my mind, INDISPUTABLE) FACTS.
I'm willing to go part way: The election wasn't *fair.* There wasn't enough coverage in the media about Biden's apparent lapses. But the media, liberal and Fox? I don't expect them to be fair. Do You?
There were lapses in procedures followed. Some was justified by COVID being rampant. Some probably weren't. I need to study it more.
But will You go part way? The idea that the election was *stolen* is a fantasy made up by Trump. Most likely it's just because he's a sore loser. That's the personality he's displayed anyway.
We disagree NUMBER ONE that “the force to be stopped” is Trump.
We disagree that the level of GOOD President Trump did was just on the scale of “any other president” (Much less this one!!! God help us!!!).
There is no need to go any further.
No, it’s not a “fact.” Just another misrepresentation of Trump’s intentions and actions so redolent in his entire presidency.
I cannot convince you of the truth of Jan 6 any more than I could convince you earlier of anything we have spoken of. There are better, more informed sources and true accounts for this. But you won’t listen to them either? There is nothing I can do here.
Just please reread Orwell, just as an exercise, without citing “Trump” as the villain. But as the institutionalized villain. God save us all.
You make the same mistake that many do. They are unable to separate their political posturing from the importance of standing up for what’s right for Israel. Bruce is 100% correct. I hate Trump as well and hope he never runs again. At the same time, I make my decisions for Israel irrespective of the political consequences.
I'm not making any attempt to stand up for Jews, one way or the other. You'll vote according to Your own political posturing.
If You vote for Trump in '24, You're voting for someone who attempted to overthrow the government. You may see that as a wise move for Jews to make. I think it's a bad move for *anyone* to make. To me, people are people. And people that will vote for Trump, knowing what he did, or willfully ignoring the facts of the matter, are making a big mistake.
You are saying that Bruce agrees with what Trump said because he is a Trump supporter. That’s wrong. Bruce agrees with what Trump said because Trump was correct in so far as Israel is concerned.
I respectfully disagree. If your quote is accurate he referenced American Jews not Judaism as a religion. He also said those American Jews should realize what is at stake as far as Israel is concerned. I think he is right about that. The stakes are very high in my non-Jewish opinion. The current administration and the one that preceded Trump's have not favored Israel. To the extent that they favor Iran and aid its pursuit of nuclear weapons. I do not think there is any denying this. Perhaps that is why Biden is so cavalierly discussing Armageddon. I also think the odious Hilary Clinton would have been the same. This is a consequence of all that "elitism". Some of us are expendable. And it is not just Jews. We used to talk about the melting pot and American exceptionalism. Those were real things and they grew out of our common Judaeo Christian heritage. Most of us on on your side.
Your holiday sounds lovely. I greatly admire the Jewish people for your perseverance. Enjoy your celebration.
Spot on Lynne from your Non J opinion now I wonder why the J brain can’t understand what is at stake unless everything the media, social media and the polls keep selling us is absolute bullshit, and come November we are in for the shock of our lives perhaps we will be engulfed by a red wave - God Willing God Bless America
White Evangelicals/GOP support Israel because their religious faith deems it necessary for Amageddon and the Rapture to occur, in which Jesus comes back, the Christians ascend to heaven, the Jews are sent to hell....except for a small minority who will suffer through Tribulations, then repent and be saved.
Uh...no. This is about as accurate as saying all Jews are dishonest, money-grubbing bankers. A small minority of Christians may have some similar opinions to what you describe, although in my 25+ years as a pastor, I've never heard anyone wish for the Jews to be sent to hell. But most actual Christians hold deeply nuanced views, and they support Israel because it is the only legitimate democracy in the region, because they remember the holocaust, and see the need for a Jewish nation, and because they feel a spiritual kinship with Jews.
Bari I have to lean towards what T Reid says. I have often wondered why the Jewish people are putting up with those who treat them like they are in a toxic relationship. It is like the same story. My spouse only beats me because it was my fault, or they truly do love me. No, they are really ass wipes. This goes the same for other minority groups who put up with the same old shit from the Liberals.
Warren and Sanders routinely want to put blame on the Jewish people from greedy banks (code words), and to boycott Israel. AOC and the toxic squad would gladly through Israel to Iran and Hezbollah and have Israel collapse. Jewish people are attacked in New York on the streets. Why the hate speech which says the Jewish people are really the rulers and get rich off the poor workers. Wonder where we have heard that kind of speech before. If you think that AOC and the Squad cannot generate the support for dumping Isarel, then I do not know what to say other than no one thought the short funny looking guy with a weird mustache could control a country either.
The Jewish people need to support those who will help them and offer the support they need and maybe actually help the Middle East find peace. Remember, even Henry K was against supplying weapons during the conflict where Isarel was surprised by the surrounding countries. Not until Isarel threatened to nuke the opposing countries capitals did the US change its stance. If Henry K, a good Irish boy (sarcasm) can take such a position, how much harder is it for Communists like AOC, Sanders, Warren, and others to do the same?
Trump for all of his faults (which are many) at least did something for Israel and the people. No wonder he is confused and upset as to why the Jewish people chose to go back to that toxic relationship with the Democrats and especially a demented old guy who was friends with Robert Byrd a true KKK believer. Tell me anything the Dems have done to help secure Israel's future?
I make no apologies for mean language, but sometimes the truth does hurt and has to be said bluntly.
Bari, I appreciate Common Sense so much. As a Christian man, who takes the Bible seriously (including the Torah!) I have tremendous appreciation and respect for Jews, and the undeniably Jewish heritage of my own faith.
Looking from the outside, I do think perhaps you are overreacting to Trump’s comments (I’m not a fan of Trump, btw). Objectively, those words do not have to be received as “the toxic notion of the ungrateful Jew.” Without more context, it feels like you are trying to manufacture antisemitism where it isn’t found. Unfortunately, there is plenty of it out there - you don’t need to make this sort of stretch - just use a more unambiguous example. As it stands, that section of your post sounds a bit like TDS.
Please receive this a FRIENDLY feedback - I really do appreciate you and CS, as well as Jews, Judaism, and Israel.
Considering that Donald Trump's son-in-law is an Orthodox Jew and his daughter converted to the faith, I would say you would be hard-pressed to find a man (let alone former President) who is more supportive and/or accepting of the Jewish people.
However, it can be said that Trump is guilty of making an ambiguous statement, but we've known he does things like that since he came down the escalator.
"the former president is criticizing American Jews for being ungrateful, commanding them to show him proper respect—and issuing a veiled threat if they do not".
Maybe I’m just a dense Gentile but what exactly is the threat, Bari? As a self-avowed Jewish “victim”, you’re entitled to you opinion, but it seems to me, and I would guess most objective Jews, that Trump was referring to the existential threat posed to Israel by Biden’s re-embrace of the Iran nuclear farce (JCPOA) he and Obama tried to shove down our collective throats. Even we Gentiles are not oblivious to the potential unraveling of the historic Abraham Accords Trump negotiated with Israel, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain as a result.
Of course, I could be wrong. Perhaps the threat you refer to is of a much more personal variety. Exposing the hypocrisy of Jews like you who claim to be under threat from the mean orange man while Blacks and Latinos are literally being slaughtered in cities all across America because of policies implemented by democrats you obviously support is certainly more visceral. Maybe Kanye deserves some grace for appreciating the contrast.
If you are an American Conservative who has been paying attention you have long since learned to lower your expectations. We have learned to live with the strange reality that ours is a culture in which wealthy, sanctimonious progressives bemoan their “victimhood” while slandering those with opposing views or daring to point out the real victims whose blood now fills the streets.
I made my own comments separately, but did want to say specifically here that PARTICULARLY if we disagree, engaging in honest dialogue is useful as long as people stay cool, avoid name-calling, and both LISTEN carefully, and work hard first to inform thrmselves, think clearly, and thrn write carefully.
Amen! I see Bari getting a lot of flack on here - from all sides. One of the best things about Bari is that she has a diverse guests and readership. And if we all behave, we might just learn something about why people hold different views. We may not change our minds, but there is value in understanding where people are coming from.
Exactly!! Honest dialogue solves so many problems. But it requires listening, which requires openness, which requires emotional maturity, something seemingly rare any more.
I just ordered a book written in I think the 1940’s arguing “evil” is nothing more or less than immaturity, which in more modern terms might be what I decided this moment to call an Undifferentiated Personality Disorder.. I have a strong sense it is if anything more relevant today.
It has always been difficult. Perhaps the most important global contribution of Western civilization is to have placed a premium on it, rather than relying on power structures of one derivation or another.
I honestly believe that the only alternative to negotiated compromise via emotionally healthy dialogue is violence. And what Trump understands is that such violence is in fact the explicit underpinning of all left wing anti-Liberal authoritarianism.
All sides need to calm down and understand this. Once violent ideologues get power, the world inherently stops making sense.
And to the point here, the Left in aggregate HATES Israel in many ways and for many reasons.
What I am hearing from her are fear and pain. I am not Jewish, but I am conservative, and people have been HATING on me for many years in unbelievably nasty ways. Its scary and hard to comprehend that the same people happy to hold the door for you, and who live next to you, can so publicly hate you and wish for your removal from society.
It must be much worse being Jewish, and any mother of a newborn has to be concerned about the future.
She WAS at thr NYT, but remember she very publicly repudiated their GroupThink and left. It was a very brave thing to do.
So, again, I disagree with here here and have articulated my reasons why, but am far from ready to judge her or slot her into the category Them, of one sort or another.
Each of us, in our own ways and for our own reasons, is fearful. It is a scary time. There are so many things to go wrong some days its hard not to just wish the damned apocalypse would just start, so we can get it over with. I see this pattern particularly pronounced in the many so willing to abandon their liberties and lives for the subjective safety of submergence in a Collective of one sort or another. Seemingly, this time calls for more courage than most people possess.
I can control my own life, my own words, my own decisions, and I try to do so in a positive, constructive way, and accept that my views are often contrary in some ways to EVERY group I encounter.
I do value what she has done here, and suggest you give all this a second look.
Your comment appears to be in response to my own comment. How you arrived at that word salad from my single sentence is a mystery, though perhaps you thought it a good entre for your own Sustack. Thanks, but I will pass.
One, she is not the birth mother. Perhaps maternal instincts, absent hormonal fluxes associated with delivery, still came forth for her, but I think that part of your argument is pretty much just sexist fluff. To say nothing of cloyingly embarrassing.
If you think the pushback on Bari Weiss' column here is "HATING" or particularly nasty, you might need some reconsideration of the comments here. And your own seeming self-satisfaction as a "moderate".
If you think her quitting the NYT (she really was being ostracized there, so it was more like constructive dismissal) is significant but you haven't considered why she went to work there in the very first place as some sort of comeback to my assertion, you've likely got cognition issues.
And if you think that being "fearful" is some sort of excuse for the poor assessment she made of Trump's words or, worse, inserting Trump into a non-sequitur assessment of Ke, then it is you who really needs to give her piece and the comments - including my own - a "second look".
Bloomberg, WaPo, probably NYT, KJ-P, and many other fellow travelers of the Left and the Democrat Party were fast to press with the "it's anti-semitic" narrative - you know, the way MSNBC, CNN, etc., get their talking points in sync early in the day. Pointing out that Bari Weiss followed suit is a ripe criticism.
I agree - I didn’t hear any veiled threat above the threat that more Israel-hating squad members are rallying their kind to pull even more support of Israel and the OBidens willing to make insane deals with Iran...
Spot On.......anti-Semitism is a cancer among the progressive base of the Democratic Party. Look no further than academia where Jewish students are harassed and discriminated against at many of our universities. Omar and her squad members have made numerous ("it's all about the Benjamins") anti-semitic remarks with no push back from Pelosi, Biden or Schumer for fear of alienating their woke base. Unfortunately, both the Labour Party in England and the Democratic Party have shown an anti-Israel and anti-Jewish bias. Moreover, I support Trump's viewpoint that American Jews who support the Democratic Party are either naive or willfully blind to what's occurring their rank and file.
If there was any need to prove how bad things are for Jews now in America, the highest-liked comment on this article on Common Sense (very ironic!) is not one commenting on the exploding anti-semitism in the US, on West’s unchallenged vitriolic statements, but one vigorously defending Trump’s attitude towards the ungrateful Jews!
Trump and his son in law Jared Kushner did more for Jews worldwide than any democrat past or present. When people show you who they are, believe them the first time. Left leaning Jews in the US still don’t understand the Antisemitism around them. They will continue to ignore, minimize and laugh about it until it comes for them, and it will come for them. History has shown us time and again. I am religiously liberal but when my people are threatened, I will defend and stand up. Some of us will never go like lambs to the slaughter ever again and we won’t be Jews with trembling knees. We know it starts with words (but never ends there.)
Please vote for republicans in the midterms - as an independent, a Jew and as a citizen of the rapidly deteriorating state of the world, I implore you. The Biden/Obama legacy is one of chaos, power vacuum and self-immolation. It would’ve taken a dystopian imagination to have anticipated how far and quickly we have fallen (& in tandem with the values of our 401Ks.) We literally cannot afford any more of this.
I am going to guess one of the reasons you don’t want Trump because we will back to a place where Democrats are attacking him non -stop. I say “bring it on”! I will never vote Democratic again. THEY are the racists.
Actually, that's not it. I can't vote for any politician that undermines democracy as a whole. I liked a lot of his middle east policy, and I can't stand the woke left, but destroying the bedrock of our society is a price I won't pay.
Yes! I have Black friends who said the same thing— “I will never vote Democrat again. Forty years! I am sorry and ashamed!”
“Bring it on!!” Yes to you. :) High-five.
Also, I say the same thing as you!: “this ain’t Grandma’s Democrats.” If only I could convince my 90-year-old grandmother and so many others in my native blue state, who are entirely conservative yet believe everything CNN tells them. That ALONE would swing an election. If people just would believe the truth. God bless.
Yes, some did comply without much protest at the beginning not imagining what horror could be in store for them and some fought like lions and died fighting back. In no way do I mean to imply that Jews did not fight back. I mean to make the point that we should not ever be surprised at what could be done to us nor lulled into a complacency where we don’t understand where this type of thing can and does lead.
I used to wonder how the Holocaust happened. How could people let it happen. But I feel like I am watching the same pre-Holocaust things play our before my eyes. Don't speak against the narrative. Don't arm yourself. Embrace string central government.
I see it too. I am disgusted that all of my Democrat friends are going along it. I just don't know what to say or do anymore. I share articles from Common Sense and there's never a response. How much of that is FB burying it or people not caring, I can't say. I also notice younger generations watching Youtube rather than reading articles. I'm afraid the ones who should be reading are not doing so.
Jews did not fight back, not until the Warsaw Ghetto revolt. It seems no one really believed the danger was so acute. Certainly, German Jews were so integrated in German society that they could not imagine the unimagineable. And what could they do? With your children and wife at your back, what could you do? These were not commandos. They were businessmen, accountants, ordinary people.
If there is need to prove the intellectual bankruptcy of the Left, it's seen in this absurd effort to portray warnings about the Left's anti-Semitism as themselves anti-Semitic.
I totally agree with you. This isn’t some kind of joke that should be brushed under the table. Kanye has 22 million followers, Jewish population in total is 13.5 million. That’s a lot of people listening to his rants. I believe the anti semitism exhibiting itself all over the world is just the beginning of something far more nefarious . Stop explaining or apologizing to the people who hate us! Stop giving Holocaust museum tours to people who hate us. We are not quivering Jews anymore .
As someone who only started following Ye on SM after his most recent grift, I'd like to hope that there are many like me who have started following for the trainwreck and not a ignorant pop culture fans. But I honestly doubt that given how popularized anti-Semitism has become again. I've had to unfollow several right wing accounts that were providing excellent commentary on the state of American affairs only to show that they too were anti-semites. I have always considered myself an ardent ally to the Jewish community, liberal, conservative, or otherwise. I can assure you that if the time comes, I will be standing shoulder to shoulder with you in the breach. I hope there are more like me who feel the same.
Unfortunately, there are 50million (or maybe 30 excluding the bots) who DO follow his every word, lyric, interview and lap it up. If just a tiny fraction are influenced against Jews or heaven forbid use it as the motivation they were looking for to torment violence against visible Jews walking to synagogue, the impact could be horrific.
Truer words were never said. Among Jews in Los Angeles, they believe they must "toe the company line" because their jobs and social relationships are jeopardized if they identify as a Republican, conservative or (God forbid) a Trump supporter.
Donald Trump was President of the USA for four years. During that time, we started zero new wars, Russia invaded zero neighbors (unlike in the Bush, Obama and Biden admins), illegal immigration was suppressed, wage growth exceeded inflation, income taxes both personal and corporate were reduced, the Abraham Accords made progress in the Middle East, ISIS was eliminated and the US murder rate decreased for 3 years of his four year term. This "clear and present danger" you speak of...where is it, aside from Twitter?
Yes, please list the Biden admin accomplishments if you don't mind.
However, your easy dismissal of the successful Trump admin based on COVID, which has continued to be a mess throughout the Biden admin and also in many other nations, seems like TDS to me.
The Interstate closest to you just might get paved. And on that same Interstate there might be charging stations for electric cars. And the electronic chips in those cars just might be built in the USA. And the electricity producing those chips just might be coming in through an expanded electrical grid. And actually some (but not most) Republicans actually voted for it. Oh, and I forgot, lowered drug prices in Medicare for some medicines (not voted for by Republicans..)
BTW, Trump's vaccine push was the best thing he ever did..
Biden (AKA "Malarky Man") is a far greater danger to American and global security. Biden is weak, incompetent, senile and (after his humiliating Afghanistan withdrawal) Russia, China and Iran are aggressively pursuing their militaristic goals.
"China knows better than transgress with Taiwan".........just another Democrat defender of Biden - Harris (AKA :Dumb & Dumber). Talking about getting educated......didn't Kamala deliver a forceful speech at the DMZ hailing our "strong alliance with the Republic of North Korea".
The level of social desirability biased and elitism has taken hold of our managerial and professional class is completely and utterly astounding.
Half the Democratic Party wouldn’t piss on Israel if it was on fire. An honest-to-god 10-20% would be happy seeing the Jews wiped off the face of the Earth.
Trump calls you out on your bullshit and now it’s a “veiled threat” 🤣🤣
Hey Bari, how much more money do we have to send to Ukraine and the Azov battalion (you know, LITERAL NAZIS) at the behest of a bunch of neoliberals before enough is enough?
The Dems fun Nazis and you write puff pieces about Zelensky. Trump calls you out on the astounding stupidity of this and it’s a “veiled threat.”
It’s embarrassing.
But hey, just like with women letting themselves get displaced by a bunch of biological men in dresses, if you don’t want to stand up for yourselves, why the hell should the rest of us waste our energy doing it for you?
I agree with much of what you've wrote though disagree with the premise that we shouldn't stand with the Jewish community when a good few of their own wouldn't do so. I feel the same for the US as well. Some allies aren't worth sacrificing and the Jewish community, by and large deserve defense, even if liberal Jews like Bari fail to grasp the reality of their situation.
Russell, nothing like a strident comment to set the tone. To your point that half of Dems wouldn't piss on Israel if it was on fire (the description is colourful!) I will have to agree that a few younger Democrat Congresspeople today are rather (very) misguided in their attitude towards Israel at best, and idiotic and anti Semitic at worst. Happy to see Jews wiped off the face of the earth from that honest to God ten to twenty per cent? Not sure what publication you might have found that in..
You didn't make that one up, did you?
But a small fact: In 2016 the Obama Admin (the one Republicans judged the least friendly Admin to Israel of all..remember?) signed a ten year deal with Israel worth $38 billion dollars in military aid. Trump would never admit that all that good stuff flowing to his pal Netanyahu was signed by the man both of them despised. That wouldn't have served their narrative as bosom buddies joined at the hip.
Trump makes the juvenile mistake in harping that all Jews here should be thankful on his efforts to help Israel, not understanding that American Jews can be quite (very) critical of Israel's policies and still love their spiritual homeland. And they can dislike Trump no matter what he does in Jerusalem.
You say the Dems fun(d) Nazis in Ukraine. Since 2014 close to twenty billion dollars has been sent to Ukraine in funding their military with armaments and training. Four of those years was under the Trump Administration. If I can do the math, I would say that that half of that twenty billion came with Trump's blessing (but that's right, that first impeachment, can't forget about that..)
At least there was an impeachment of Trump. We are still waiting on an investigation of quid pro Joe and the prosecutor investigating Burisma, Hunter's benefactor, who was fired to free up some of that foreign aid.
I do not care for them either. Truth be told I am weary to the bone of the chattering class and those who derive their livelihood therefrom. And this even though the polls are purportedly leaning right this cycle. I do think the FBI and its overlord the DoJ need a perusal as does Hunter Biden's income.
Enjoy your time at shul tonight. I wish I could be going. I have lots of fun memories of Simchat Torah (and filling glasses with spirits - Jews can be real party animals during services). As for Trump's comment, "US Jews have to get their act together and appreciate what they have in Israel—Before it is too late!” That does not sound like a threat...it sounds more like a warning of what may happen if the US continues pushing Biden's nuke deal with Iran and continues Obama's desire to put distance between the US and Israel.
Yes, correct. Bari is very brave in speaking out about anti Semitism, one of the very few democrats who do so. But here political blinders get in the way of seeing this clearly, as you have noted.
"And that the former president is criticizing American Jews for being ungrateful, commanding them to show him proper respect—and issuing a veiled threat if they do not."
This part is the lie that undoes this article. There is no command in Trump's post, and there is no threat in Trump's post. There is a WARNING - a very legitimate one. Bari admits its legitimacy in the rest of this column, as the left-wing movement poses serious threats to Jews. Yet she acts as though it's heresy to follow those facts to their logical conclusion: Support the movements that defend Jews or fall victim to those who hate Jews.
Interestingly enough, this article drops several hours after National Review's Philip Klein wrote a piece on exactly the same collection of public statements. No citation, Bari? I suspect that reading Klein's column inspired this one in its entirety.
I fully agree. Ye's statement and Trump's statement are not related in any way.
Bari's TDS has led her to complain that the biggest supporter that Israel has ever had has somehow criticized Jews. He's sounding the alarm about how dangerous the Dems are for peace in the middle east.
Readers can disagree regarding whether there is a veiled threat in Trump's statement, but, regardless, that statement does not undo the rest of this article.
People can disagree with anything, but some disagreements are far less rational than others.
As for the article, it is a trope at this point that otherwise good writeups are undermined by unnecessary, gratuitous mentions of Donald Trump (besides the fact that including that Trump quote made it very plain that she just rewrote Philip Klein's article without citation). Moreover, the weakness of the claim that Trump was being anti-Semitic is discrediting.
I didn't read Trump's statement a a veiled threat, but given Trump's history of turning on "friends" that he deems no longer sufficiently grateful, I can understand where Bari is coming from. The main point of my comment is that one, rational disagreement should not discount the remainder of someone opinion.
Bari, I love you and say with all due respect, your TDS is showing. I have often wondered why my Jewish American friends look down on the GOP platform and continue to vote DEM. Donald Trump is fearful that one more DEM controlled cycle may result in the loss of Israel. That’s NOT a veiled threat. That’s acknowledging reality.
I don't see Kanye's and Trump's comments in the same light. Kanye's comments were clearly anti-Semitic, of that there can be no question.
Trump's comments were political in nature, and similar to when any politician talks about the "black vote", "the gay vote" or the "hispanic vote." I don't think any of those discussions are particularly interesting or useful, however they are not racist, homophobic or xenophobic...they are simply commenting on the general voting tendency of pre-defined voting bloc, as if they were a monolith.
And Trump pointing out that the fact that he is more popular among Jews in Israel than in the US is anti-Semitic? Look at poling (which I am sure Bari is familiar with) and you will see that is a basic truth. It is what it is.
Do American Jews support Israel, in general? I don't know one way or another, but I know for certain the political party most vote for do not. They vote for a party with several members who ARE explicit anti-Semites (not the "dog whistle" type) and who the party has refused to condemn when they've made those comments.
Alternatively, they deride the most philo-Semitic president in US history (aside from maybe Truman). Why? Mostly because of Blue-anon conspiracy theories.
Sorry, but I think this is a TDS moment for Bari.
Check out my newest post on how modern liberalism is a fundamental anti-human ideology here:
Bari enjoy your time as a family. But also remember as Kayne says stupid things, he has no power. Trump maybe an I only say maybe because I have no idea of the ideas he was trying to express. Most likely that he was a strong advocate for Israel and wanted to get more agreement's done with other countries like Saudi Arabia and secure a safer future for the Jewish people.
Yet American Jews help elect Slow Joe who's no friend of Israel and thinks more of getting a bad agreement with Iran than the safety of the Jewish people.
I fail also to understand how the American Jewish people support a politician who stems from the party of the KKK.
So dance and enjoy but say a prayer that Brandon and crew doesn't do more damage to make our military more soft and general nutural. Because eventually the Liberals will abandon Israel and the Jewish people.
Bari, I love Common Sense. I don’t have to agree with everything I read here, but pretty much everything I read is thoughtful, or otherwise (in the case of today’s entry) coming from a place I understand and respect. So no accusations or name calling from me.
Here is my take on President Trump’s remarks. I think he is asking the same question I have been asking my Jewish friends for years: Why do you keep voting Democrat when the Democrats dump all over Israel? My Jewish friends never answer that question, or at most they say “I don’t know.”
In any event, I did not in any way interpret President Trump’s comments as any kind of threat, veiled or otherwise. I don’t think he’d make that kind of threat. Not with a daughter who converted to Judaism and married a Jewish guy whom the president used as a trusted adviser.
Israel matters to me a lot. That is why I value the things President Trump accomplished for Israel. Not just moving the embassy, but also the Abraham Accords, which are another step in the right direction. I perceive that there are American Jews who do not value Israel as highly as I do. I can’t think of reasons why they wouldn’t, but I think there are clear reasons why they should. In any event, I think it’s those American Jews who do not value Israel sufficiently highly to whom President Trump was directing his remarks.
Thank you for this Substack. Keep up the great work.
Frank, I do know. They (not all, but the majority) vote Democrat because most are not one issue voters. The majority are pro-choice, don't want the "sundowning" of Social Security and Medicare, and numerous other issues they believe the GOP is on the wrong side of.
And Bari, as an patriot who thinks Trump is a serious threat to our democracy, I think you misread Trump's remarks. Yes, his statements can be clumsy, (to say the least) but to lump him with odious Kanye West regarding anti-Semitism taints the rest of your column.
I am a patriot, and I consider Biden, Obama, and the leaders of the Democrat (not Democratic - because they are far from it) party are very serious threats to our constitutional republic.
I also live in NYC, and have not met a single liberal who believes in open borders or "abortion at the end of the 9th month." My God, where are you getting your information?
I live in the South, am nearly 70 years old and have never, ever met a member of the KKK or any other White Supremacy/White Nationalist group. Do I believe they’re out there? Absolutely! You dismiss as lunacy that liberal Democrats believe in open borders or abortion until the end of pregnancy….why are such abortion rights codified in New York law then, not to mention the insane reaction to the idea of a border wall by liberals everywhere? Just because you “don’t know any” means nothing….
Thank you. I will offer two thoughts. The first, no good ever comes, I have learned over the past two years, from generalizing whole groups of people, whether it's the Jewish people or Trump supporters. It's important, always, to remember our humanity. The second, the only way to defend Ye West would be to say he was in the bouts of mania or schizophrenia (like John Nash, who was also accused of having made antisemitic slurs before being treated). Otherwise, it's a reminder of how easy it is to slip into blaming one group for our problems, especially in times of stress, despair, poverty and division.
There is always one group that people feel it's okay to demonize and dehumanize. We know that when people feel like they're at the bottom of society they need to point to one group that is lower than they are. See those people over there, they're the real problem.
And as we know, dehumanizing both the Black and the Jewish community has led to the worst horrors the world has ever known.
I used to not think we would ever live through anything like that again. But I look around and I see dehumanization everywhere. Hate is everywhere. That makes this moment seem very precarious indeed.
Please enjoy your new life and celebrate. And yes, dance. Grab the beauty while it's there. Mazel tov to you.
This crap is still in his head. Sure, maybe he’s mentally ill, but it just served him the latitude to be uninhibited, free flowing of ideas that he could have kept to himself.
When it comes to this I feel the same way Bari does. His views are absolute crap, no question, but West can be dismissed due to his diagnosis (he is literally manic and out of touch with reality). It is the behavior of those who are supposedly sane and who give him the time of day and publicize his views which is worrisome, as is the lack of pushback and overall complacency to this perspective. This says much more than the ramblings of maniac (again, the word is used literally).
I have read and reread Trumps comments and for the life of me I think he is merely speaking the truth. The problem for Bari and several Jews that I know they are constantly seeing spiders where none exist. Bari I am frankly surprised that you even wrote this column. Ye is certifiably insane and Trump is stating truths that my Jewish friends should open their eyes and see reality. A party that hasn't run Talib et al. out the door is one I will never vote for under any circumstances. Chuck Schumer is a cheap political hack and would sell his Jewish brethren down the river in a minute just to hold onto his position and power. The people of Israel can see clearly who are their American friends and it surely is not the party of Obama and our pathetic current Dem President.
Here's my problem with this article, which kind of ties into the cited Trump remarks. While antisemitism is clearly a big issue worldwide, and to a lesser extent in the United States, almost all of it in the US is committed by left-aligned individuals and groups. And no-one complains about it. Even Jews will rarely complain. Any pushback is hushed, and limited to Jewish or conservative circles. It never under any circumstances breaks out into the general MSM. Even noticing the antisemitism is actually some kind of hate crime, since it's implicitly saying that a left-aligned person or group is doing something bad. (Even though the Jews are overwhelmingly left-aligned, the progressives still don't like them).
So the uproar here about Kanye has nothing whatsoever to do with Jews or antisemitism. That's just the pretext. The actual complaint is that Kanye has recently become more vocal about his conservatism, so he's now coming under scrutiny. While they are clearly ignorant and antisemitic, the views that Kanye espoused are quite common among the black community, and mutual animosity between blacks and Jews in the US goes way, way back. There is nothing surprising in a particular black man believing this. I suspect that most other well-known rappers/hip hop artists believe the same.
This problem is somewhat analogous to the white cops killing unarmed black men problem. It's certainly not a good thing to be happening, but it's a trivial source of deaths among black people, and we are told that even noticing the 99.99% of the problem is racist.
Trump was observing that the Democrats hate the Jews, and yet the Jews overwhelmingly support the Democrats. The Republicans, especially the Christian segment, by and large like the Jews, and quite a lot, and yet the Jews despise the Republicans and consider them one of their biggest enemies. There's nothing wrong with pointing out that the Jewish political behavior appears to be highly irrational.
Getting back to Kanye. Jews are extremely influential in America, as they have been a very successful group. If the Jews wanted to, they could publicize and push back on the ignorance that is at the heart of the beliefs that Kanye is speaking. But they don't, because their allegiance to their political party exceeds their allegiance to themselves. I get it. It would be dangerous to complain. They'd be cast out of the progressive movement and be consigned to waste heap of deplorables like the rest of us. But if they don't, then they really surrender the right to object when non-leftists do the same things.
On Trump: "...the former president is criticizing American Jews for being ungrateful, commanding them to show him proper respect—and issuing a veiled threat if they do not."
Trump is not threatening Israel or Jews or demanding respect, he is reminding them that Iran and others are deadly threats and that the current Democratic Administration is cozying up to Iran. AFAIK Jews vote heavily Democratic in the US. It is a mystery why since the Democrats seem not to support Jewish interests.
"If you are an American Jew who has been paying attention you have long since learned to lower your expectations."
Look at the explosion in anti-Asian violence, where a disproportionate percentage of the attackers are black. Or the continuing racial tension between Hispanics and Blacks. Is the issue specifically anti-Semitism I wonder or is it a country that is fracturing into warring racial tribes?
Bari - I love you, but I’m afraid your distaste for Trump has gotten the better of you here. I’ll set aside the appalling anti-Semitism of Kanye West and your understandable revulsion, which I share.
Putting Donald Trump in the same piece, and seemingly linking him to Kanye, was a bridge too far; way too far. Trump has a good argument that he’s done more to support Israel than any other President. He has an even better argument that American Jews, taken as a whole, do not appreciate his dedication to Israel; or to the extent they do appreciate it, their enduring support for Democrats at the ballot box is contrary to Israel’s national interests. It’s Democrats, after all, who are behind the disgraceful Iran nuclear deal that gravely menaces Israel, and which Trump did his best to quash.
Now, one can say that being Jewish doesn’t necessarily mean supporting Israel no matter what. Judaism isn’t Zionism. Jews can criticize Israel, and Jews can criticize Trump. Fair enough. But it’s also fair to say that many American Jews fail to acknowledge in meaningful ways that Donald Trump is a great friend to Israel. Why pointing out that fact troubles you, even to the extent it’s linked to Kanye West, suggests you have a blind spot concerning Trump.
If you read this, thank you for your attention. I hope at some point we’ll get some details about your new baby. A blessed happening!
The fact is, Kanye West is a lunatic, a deranged genius artist (like many such talented people). I don't even take his rantings seriously nor do I pay any attention to his music. He's only interesting to the world right now because he's been a friend of Trump's, bucking the liberal Establishment.
But if one is judged by their friends, maybe Trump should suggest treatment and wish him well. To be a conservative, to go against a liberal establishment does not require joining forces with a "lunatic" frothing with hate.
Don’t give a rats ass what Ye and these other idiots say. Go celebrate your heritage, your traditions, bring your baby and feel the love. And know there are many of us out here who respect Jews and dismiss the stereotypes.
"And that the former president is criticizing American Jews for being ungrateful, commanding them to show him proper respect—and issuing a veiled threat if they do not."
But this isn't an accurate summary based on what he said. Trump is basically saying "Jews should stop voting for Democrats, it's me that has been helping Israel." And I agree with Trump - Democrats have absolute Anti-Semites in elected office.
I added in a few more lines to fully clarify my position, T Reid. You can see them above but I'm also noting them here: (His staunchest supporters may insist that Trump’s warning “Before it is too late!” meant “Before it is too late for America” or perhaps “too late for Israel,” the implication being that Biden isn’t as supportive of the Jewish state and so Jews need to support Trump. However you read the opaque missive, the toxic notion of the ungrateful Jew is unambiguous.)
I read the statement as, "Democrat administrations will not come to Israel's aid, and Israel will most certainly need it someday."
This is a warning for you, done with the best interests of Israel in mind.
You might see that perspective if you don't interpret everything Trump says in the worst possible way. Others don't see that.
Trump made great strides for peace in the Middle East, got nothing in return but fury and hatred, and the new administration is back to waging war. China is salivating. Some of Israel's enemies are as well.
The white evangelical man is one of the few identities truly on the side of Israel. Your party assaults us and disempowers us relentlessly, turning our own country against us. When your defenders are weak, what happens next, Bari?
You might know the saying:
"Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make hard times, hard times make strong men."
Ignore these warnings at your peril. We're on your side.
You know they support Israel because they want Amageddon and Jesus to come back, so all the Christians get Raptured up to heaven and the Jews get sent to hell, right?
And you don't support Isreal because you Hate Jews?
Don't support/not support - have no dog in the fight.
Which is SOOOO much better than fake-ass disingenuous support and claims of "love." - when it's really nothing more than an End Times /Armageddon support, so Jesus comes back and raptures the Christians up to heaven and sends the Jews to hell.
First of all, I'm an American Jew. As an American Jew, I am more worried about the continuation of our Democracy, and global warming, than I am about any other issues.
Additionally, I would point out that Biden has done more than Trump for Israel. According to the Joint Declaration:
"...Israel thanks the United States for its ongoing and extensive support for deepening and broadening the historic Abraham Accords. The countries affirm that Israel’s peace and normalization agreements with the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, and Morocco constitute a critical addition to Israel’s strategic peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, all of which are important to the future of the Middle East region and to the cause of regional security, prosperity, and peace...."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/07/14/the-jerusalem-u-s-israel-strategic-partnership-joint-declaration/
The Trump administration orchestrated the very peace framework that the Biden administration reaffirmed. That’s your definition of the superior contribution? Wow. Now that’s some mental gymnastics.
Lemmings will be lemmings and CNN has finally arrived. Unfortunately, you are talking reality to a person who only believes party BS.
Well, he is more concerned about global warming!
Yes! Apparently not an American Jew who actually knows anything about the Abraham accords.. prob because the left mainstream media only gave it sound bites in their reporting..
The FBI and Big Tech are colluding on meddling in our elections, and that is how Biden got in. That is not a functional democracy.
That's simply not true. Where did you hear or read that?
Seriously?!?!
I grew up in Chicago. It's always been a corrupt place, but corruption there used to be "pay me and I will help you". Now that corruption has adopted the Dem mantra "pay me or I will stop you".
Not stopping something is not the equivalent of doing something.
Big difference...
Just this one point. The lynchpin of the continuation and success of the Abraham Accords rests on a positive relationship with Saudi Arabia. For all his pluses and minuses it's pretty clear that Biden has seriously damaged our relationship with the Saudis.
Excellent point and unfortunately very few will understand the Strategic overview of that single issue.
Biden has sure helped Israel. From Robert Hubbell's substack of yesterday:
For reasons that remain unclear but maddening, the media has again ignored another major achievement by President Biden. Max Boot discusses a diplomatic agreement brokered by the US that has eluded previous administrations for forty years. See Max Boot, Washington Post, Opinion | Biden just pulled off a big diplomatic victory — and almost no one noticed. The agreement relates to a seemingly technical issue (a maritime demarcation) between two countries that have no diplomatic relations—Israel and Lebanon. As Boot explains,
Trump and Netanyahu couldn’t get a deal done; Biden and [Israeli Prime Minister] Lapid did. Israel’s security establishment is firmly in favor of the deal not only because it will help safeguard Israel’s natural gas fields but also because it will help bolster the Lebanese government and economy. Israel does not want a failed state next door.
“Lebanon has, for the first time, entered a kind of de facto recognition of Israel and its borders,” writes Daniel B. Shapiro, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel.
That’s something for which the Biden administration deserves a lot of credit — just as the Trump administration deserved credit for the Abraham Accords. It just goes to show that diplomacy does pay off sometimes — even if we don’t always give it the attention it deserves.
"I am more worried about the continuation of our Democracy"
It is not possible to pretend that Democrats care more about genuine democracy than Republicans do. The rejection of all votes and institutions that do not go their way is not only present in their camp; it's the majority opinion.
It's not possible to pretend that Democrats care more about Democracy than Republicans because it's not a pretense. It's obvious.
The Abraham Accords were established by Trump. Biden had nothing to do with them.
Continuing is vastly different than creating. Do you think Biden's favorable treatment of Iran will work for Israel?
And thank you for this column, Bari Weiss.
Linking to the administration’s propaganda page is proof your lobotomy was successful.
I feel bad that Bari Weiss has so many readers who, like you in this case, make nasty comments rather than good arguments. She deserves better in her readers.
It's global warming now ?
I learned about global warming in a college class in 1975. It was predicted as far back as the late 1800s.
Yeah, I am no fan of Trump but what he is saying does not bother me. Basically just self-promoting rhetoric, and he is not totally wrong either. It is incorrect to read it as a slur against Jews, and Trump, though a man of questionable character, is by no means an enemy of Jews.
West and other rappers seem like such non-entities to me I can't believe anybody cares what they say, but agree, his comments are straight-up anti-semitic (in addition to being somewhat incoherent). Being a child of the sixties I can remember when black people made music that astounded the whole world. Now it's just rap garbage.
Yeah…. I’m an Israeli and Jewish and not a trump fan. I’ve reread the statement a few times. I still don’t see the problem. I actually kind of agree with him. Any president hell-bent on resurrecting the JCPOA is also hell-bent on funding Israel’s destruction. I don’t care how much ice cream Biden eats he’s no friend of Israel.
And the new administration is back to waging war, Anthony? Where?
In the Middle East?
Or do you equate 'waging war' as aiding in the defence of a country under an unprovoked attack from a larger neighbour?
Would you not want to aid Ukraine? If you accept the consequences of Russia's invasion going unanswered, you invite the very 'China salivating' situation you cite..
I'm not placated by that. Not the qualifiers ("staunchest supporters") or the tone, and not the "ungrateful Jew" line, either.
His post wasn't opaque. It's a warning about a real threat and a call to be on the only safe side of it. If that's "anti-Semitism", we're all lost.
Especially the way Biden is sucking up to Iran. There may not be an Isreal by the time these idiots in the white house are done.
More and more, I'm beginning to think that's what American Jews want. I don't understand why, but Occam's razor applies I think.
Why in good god's name would you think American Jews, of which I am one, WANT Israel to disappear? Some left-wingers would dance in the streets if every Israeli were murdered so "the poor beleaguered noble Palestinian" could rise from the ashes to Make Palestine Great Again. But they are a nutty, appalling minority who take up far more media space than they deserve.
Trust me, we want nothing to do with the notion that Israel needs to die so "the real people of Palestine" can live.
Why do American Jews keep voting for politicians who actively support regimes who want to destroy Israel? (and are largely antisemitec on domestic policy)
The only answer I can come up with is they would be ok with that result. I'm thinking you may be in a minority.
That will never happen but if the Iran threat of nukes persists, Israel will have to respond because if she doesn’t the whole world will be in danger
Scott on Sundays do you cheer for the Aggies or for the dark side, Texas?
It would be odd to be cheering for either on a Sunday, no?
You're right. I screwed up.
Scott, I think Israel has more nukes per capita than we do. They'll be fine..
I appreciate the clarification. I suppose "toxic notion" is a new version of the old "dog whistle" thing? Which means, "He's not saying what I wanted him to say, so I will say it for him and give it a name to justify doing so." There is no way to read Trump's statement as A) a threat or B) an accusation of "ungrateful Jew" (your words, not his).
I am not a MAGA Trump supporter. I am politically homeless like many others, but I agree with you. Trump did not mean what Bari is implying.
Don’t be homeless vote for the Republicans in the midterms things are going to change very soon🇺🇸🇺🇸
I'm afraid we are at the point of no return. Even if republicans are the majority, this doesn't rid the rot happening in corporations, colleges and K-12. There's also countless nonprofits and civil service jobs filled with progressives / leftists/ liberals. Their ideology is baked into all segments of society and they are not willing to loosen their grip on our children who they are relying on to turn on those who refuse to go along with the madness.
We CANNOT give up and give in, roll over and die!! EVERYTHING we do counts.
PRAY.
VOTE REPUBLICAN. Even if your only candidate is repugnantican.
Run for office!
And there are countless other ways we fight back. Take on the costs of home- or alternative schooling of our children. Take great care in our consumer and electronic/tech habits. SPEAK OUT everywhere!
Dear,
Please don't lose the hope. We r just a grain of sand in the hand of our creator.
I don't listen to The Donald anymore. Face it the guy is an asshole. However, he has a large following who hang om his every word so you can't discount him.
He fans the flames.
The few times I did listen to him, I got pissed off--not by what he said, but because, as you accurately point out, he's an asshole.
I didn't vote for him because I thought he'd be good dinner or cocktail party company. I voted for him because I thought he'd do a much better job than the competition. I still think that. I don't think that being an asshole should disqualify someone from being president. Sometimes we ~need~ an asshole in the Oval Office. And he was very good at that.
I greatly admire the job he did and how he did it. And he's still an asshole.
Agree. He's an asshole and a bully. I also voted for him the last time as the lesser of two undesirable choices; but when you've been bullied for too long and need someone to help you end the bullying, who do you enlist; some conciliatory lifetime politician or another bully, your bully. Yes, sometimes you need a bigger and better bully to defeat another bully. Dinesh D'Souza says that because the left has the biggest megaphones (the Media, Hollywood, and Academia) and have been bringing knives to a fist fight for decades, Republican candidates (like Romney) have campaigned with fear and timidity and lost; but that Trump won because he refused to play by these rules and because his narcissism and egotism is his strength when dealing with the bullying Leftist rhetoric of false narratives. Trump, says D'Souza, won because he was a tough guy who can take a punch and give one back. Trump succeeded against the dishonest and bullying Left because his ego enabled him to move relentlessly forward when attacked. In Trump, Republicans found someone who could finally counter the dirty fighting from the Left. Leftists who know I voted for Trump ask me why I'm not bothered by Trump's lack of decorum and if I think his tweets are beneath the dignity of the office; and I tell them that I didn't find anything dignified about Obama's lying about what happened in Ferguson in order to ramp up racial hatred that serves the Democrat Party; and I tell them that there's nothing dignified in weaponizing the IRS to destroy Obama's political opponents and silence dissent. The Left has been engaged in a war with America for 60 years; a war they've fought with violence, threats, demagoguery, and lies; and a war they've been fighting without opposition for 6 decades. Yes Trump can be vulgar, crude, and undignified but he fights for an America that the Left wants to destroy. Ulysses Grant was a drunk and had Lincoln applied peacetime rules of propriety and booted Grant, the Democrats might well still be holding their slaves today. Lincoln rightly recognized that, "I cannot spare this man. He fights!"
I agree with everything you just posted. I voted for him twice because I couldn't vote for the Communist/Dem Party.
Mean tweets or nuclear war...
hmmmm....lemme think for a minute....tough choice...
For some it apparently is.
Who's talking about tweets?
Isn't it clear that the near term threat is to Israel? How far away is Iran from an atomic or nuclear weapon? Biden has helped Iran to move towards its genocidal goal of destroying Israel.
Someone tell me why Jews still vote Democratic?
Because Jews, like myself, are liberal, open minded. But why many don’t realize “ this is not grandma’s Democratic Party”...I don’t know.
I didn’t walk away...I ran! Biden administration is so destructive and kowtows to the squad that they are truest racists.
Speak for yourself. There's a growing population of American Jews who are no longer "liberal." We've seen what that translates to and it's not very pretty, welcoming, or safe. Get used to the fact that no one's looking out for us. Playing nice certainly doesn't work. Take off the gloves.
True, I am seen many turn around, including my 90+ year old parents and some friends who keep it quiet but feel passionately about the situation.
But we are still barely scratching the surface - I guess we are not as smart as we want others to think we are. Sad!
("..no one is looking out for us...") You are correct Sir.
Flipping it: We aren't looking out for ourselves. ("..Take off the gloves..") the
My continual rant: The anti-human IMF/WEF/CCP Juggernaut (international criminal finance) is attempting world domination and the creation and imposition of a world totalitarian feudalism. They are using tactics (in the 50's they called it "brain washing") developed by Communist ideologues to disassemble the culture and values of nation state's and democratic republics. Globalism and environmentalism is the front they're using.
In a totally compromised political system the only legitimate human frame of reference is the American Constitution and the Bill of Rights it contains.
It’s a riddle wrapped in a mystery, however, strange as it may seem I found a few openly out the closet Trump supporters lately who seem to be much more chatty about President Trump and the positive things he did for America and how his Nostradamus like predictions have played out the last 23 months eg energy shortages southern border and going back to the ridiculous green new deal + how disastrous Brandon would be for our 401k
Death wish.
What do you mean by that?
"ungrateful jews" ... it is difficult to consider Trump an anti-semite when he has, as you noted done so much for peace in the ME. The Abraham Accords are nothing shy of outstanding. Trump identified a voting bloc that he thinks consistently votes against their best interests. He commented on this opinion. It may have been inelegant but it certainly isn't as bad as, "if you don't vote democrat you ain't black!" which uses insulting syntax and condescends an entire race.
A rare miss on this one, Bari. Maybe you needed more words to fill out the piece, but Trump’s commentary was accurate and not some imagined veiled threat. Including Trump’s commentary alongside Kanye’s grossly antisemitic vitriol is making a disingenuous association at best.
I agree with everything but the "rare miss" part. Bari is NYT to the core.
No, she isn't.
But she is anti-Trump, unfortunately. (I'm a Trump supporter.)
I agree with this take. It's quite the juxtaposition.
I agree.
Bari--
That's not at all how I read what you quoted Trump as saying. I see it as a general warning that there are seriously dark forces--as you called them--operating against us. And the idea that we need to do something before it's too late doesn't say anything about Trump. I says a lot about us and our current environment.
My grandfather was born and raised--to about age 14 or 15--in Kishinev. He emigrated to New Orleans in the late 1900s or early 19-teens. He kept trying to persuade the rest of his Kishinev family to come to NOLa, but no joy. In 1927 he took the whole NOLa family there, but again, they remained unpersuaded. When he returned to the US, he kept writing and getting replies to the effect that it's not as bad as it looks.
And then in the mid-'30s the replies suddenly stopped.
In 1946 he got confirmation that the family had been murdered.
He had been telling them to do something before it was too late. He wasn't threatening them; he was trying to make them see what was obvious to him.
Why do you see this as a warning from Trump that he'll do something terrible if...what exactly? We don't vote for him? I think he's pointing out that terrible stuff is going on now and if those of us who don't recognize it and act on it, it's probably going to make the nazi Shoah look like a picnic.
What actions exactly? Voting for democratic candidates in high office is not a smart move. Who was the last effective pro-Israel democratic politico you've seen? You might argue that Clinton was at least marginally effective. But since then? Name one.
I didn't think so.
So, what actions exactly will maximize our safety? Sure as hell isn't voting for more democrats. They've effectively declared war on Jews. Look at congress. Look at the White House. Are you getting a warm fuzzy feeling from them? I'm not. Of the choices available, republicans are the ones most likely to be helpful to us. Playing "but what about?" isn't going to help.
Well said. Bari has a big blind spot.
Anything Trump says can be distorted to be menacing but she ignores the blatant anti-Semitism in her party.
I’m not surprised of Bari’s blind spot, I’m just hoping that she learns something from these discussions. If she walks away having her opinion of this issue unchanged, we failed.
I’m very frustrated that my fellow American Jews cannot separate their politics from what is really important for Israel. It is very disappointing.
"there are none so blind as those who refuse to see"
Yes.
I know the blind spot is so tiresome and makes me respect her less unfortunately
The Dem Party is the antisemitic party.
And still the Party of Slavery…basically they are guilty of everything they accuse others of.
That is what Ann Coulter says. Ann agrees with you.
It’s really obvious once you start thinking about it… that’s the best part of the Truth. It’s accessible to everyone.
‘Twas not always thus, but it sure as hell is now.
It’s been like this for a very long time pre Clinton, what the Democrats never reckoned on was Facebook and Donald Trump, both changed the dynamics of the world completely. Donald for the better Facebook is the cancer!!
I know., Joe. I know. Dems bad!! (And some are, actually..)
But Obama signed a $38 billion ten year long military aid deal with Israel in 2016. Does that count?
I'm assuming B. Netanyahu meekly shook Obama's hand in thanks..
Obama put conditions on how the how the money is spent. Now we have the wokees wanting no aid. The Dems can call out islamaphobia, asian hatred, black hatred but not a syllable for Jew hatred.
Because pr. Obama is a politician that still needs to have a broad base of traditional donors. It is going away in 5 or 10 years max.
Because pr. Obama is a politician that still needs to have a broad base of traditional donors. It is going away in 5 or 10 years max.
This was better reading than her essay, unfortunately. I’m sorry. God help us all.
Not Clinton. At least not Hillary Clinton.
I was referring Willie. Hill is clearly anti-semitic.
Get a life, Bari. I'm not Jewish, but I have a number of Israeli frkends, both in Israel and the US. They all are IDF veterans and fought in 1967, 1973, and 1982, and several.of them have the wound scars to.prove it. Although several have advanced degrees from.American universities, and one is a professor at the Technion in Israel,They have little use for college-educated, secular, wealthy, upper middle class and upper.class American Jews. As.one.of them said to me in Tel Aviv in 1994, I couldn't count on an American Jew.of that type in a fight.
I understand why this is and accept it.
American Jews have done this to themselves.
We have done what to ourselves?
Nothing. We have done nothing to ourselves. Please stop already with the groupblame. It's what the antisemites do, blame "the Jews" for "their own problems," and there's too many of those asswipes already.
Americans face hundreds of issues at the ballot box. The fate of Israel is only one of many, and frankly, a small one because Israel can take care of itself. I love Israel and support it in a number of ways. But I don't vote for American presidents based only on what they will do for another country. I was born, raised, and live in America, and vote not for the Knesset, but Congress and the White House.
Voting for Trump doesn't make you a "good" Jew, and voting for Biden doesn't make you a "bad" one. Or, vice-versa. Voting for either has nothing to do with our Jewishness or love of Israel, it's about running our own country.
Great answer, Shane.
Thanks, Lee. I'm an American, period. If I wanted to vote for the Knesset, I'd move to Jerusalem.
Thanks for your response.
I understand your position very clearly.
The attached article is the motivation for my comments.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-un-jews-natan-sharansky
You're welcome, Brian. I always enjoy your posts and meant no offense with my reply, only dialogue. I'll take a read of the link, thanks.
Totally to themselves Brian!! And thank God Israel doesn’t have to rely on them or Biden, Israel can stand up for themselves!!
I was filled with great pride when I visited Israel this past spring.
They are self reliant and stand up for themselves.
Yip we have discussed it before a miracle country if I remember correctly somebody in your family is going on a birth right tour in December
Solution ( which I am in the process of doing) …become an Israel and fight the fight!
I wish, I should have done that 50 years ago!
"They have little use for college-educated, secular, wealthy, upper middle class and upper class American Jews."
They may have "little use" for us, but they happily accept the billions of dollars we raise privately for Israel each and every year, don't they?
Your Israeli friends fought the wars that established and protected the nation. They acquitted themselves superbly. I'm proud of them. But they complain too much about American Jews. We would just as fierce, warlike, and willing to gut the enemy if we were ever in their position: fight or die, kill or be killed, win or lose not just your nation, but your existence.
America has never experienced invasion, conquest, or any foreign attack that threatened our survival. I wouldn't expect any American Jew to be able to fight at the level of an IDF paratrooper. Neither can most Americans, Jewish or not, fight at that level; we've never had the need.
America was attacked on December 7, 1942 and on September 11, 2001. In both occasions our armed forces acquitted themselves quite well.
100% right
Bari, I am an American Jew who has supported Israel for the last twenty years. My own experience has shown me the vast difference in support for Israel between Evangelical Christians and so many Democrat-voting Jews. Donald Trump is correct. His meaning is clear, unless most Jews start to understand where their huge support of the Democrats is taking them, Israel will lose its only friend in the world. Having spent years combating anti Israel and anti-Semitism on college campuses, it is clear to me that only one party supports this vile behavior on campus and now throughout the US - the Democrats. Republicans and conservatives have NO voice on campus and now, NO voice in any US institution. Please do not conflate Trump and his vast following of Zionists with Kanye West.
I fear for Israel because so many have bought into the Democrat-supported anti-Zionism and now tolerate their anti-Semitism.
The woke left has the Western world chasing the "populist bogeymen" while the woke control the entire narrative and soon, our very lives. Just ask Klaus Schwab, Bill Gates and George Soros, and the countless billionaires and world leaders who are with them. They now can speak more openly because they have less resistance every day. These are the ones in control, not Trump. The powerful enemies of Israel are all Democrats. The Blacks who hate Israel are NOT conservatives like Larry Elder or Candice Owens. And Trump IS loved in Israel!
Most of my Jewish friends are conservatives and are just as baffled as I am on how the bulk of Jews can vote for the antisemite party.
I am nominating you for “person of the year” best Common Sense award this was brilliant. The people you mention in your post are the very people who are threatening our existence on this planet not climate change. The fact that they locked down a healthy population for 21/2 years starting with Donald Trump in power and then rigging a vote to further lock us down just tells us the power these terrible people have we cannot continue on this path it will be the end of us!!
100% correct. Thank you.
Well said.
I would like to ask Bari which group she believes are the best friends that Israel and the Jews have. You know who they are. I wonder if Bair does, or if she would admit it.
Have to disagree, Dennies. Sorry. If Israel were to be attacked, American forces under Biden would be there in 24 hours. And under any Democratic President who may follow.
Why?
Because it would be the very one thing that would unify our country..And a huge win politically.
It's a no brainer.
Ask the Israelis. They MUST live in reality. Remember the Iran deal, and Obama's ignoring the Green Revolution. Trump was genuinely for Israel. That is why they loved his support. The GOP is far more supportive of Israel. The woke Dems have no use for Israel but they do for the Israel-hating George Soros.
Israel signed a $38 billion ten year long military aid deal from the Obama Administration in 2016.
So maybe we should ask the Israelis, right?
I get it, you love Obama and the Dems. Too bad you don't speak for Israel. Their lives are on the line every day. Your life is not. Go to Israel some time and find out the truth. It ain't what you're watching.
I wish I could agree with you but don't. The Lebanon Maritime deal is the blueprint.
Lebanon 100% - Israel 0%. The Jew hating Dems would riot.
Really Lee do you remember Kissinger’s shuttle diplomacy in 1973 the Israelis were nearly overrun by an unprovoked attack on Yom Kippur. While Kissinger was very busy diplomatically for nearly two weeks America refused to send ammunition, in fact when did the situation change when General Sharon surrounded the third army only then did America send fresh supplies. So no I don’t think the Biden administration would be there for Israel politically or military you only need to see the Iran deal. I don’t think Israel exist to unite the American people that’s the American people’s job which I might add we not doing to well because of shockingly bad leadership currently .
Very good point, Skinny. America was indeed late in aiding Israel in 1973. But when we did it helped turn the tide. My memory is not entirely accurate, but I do recall Nixon raising our nuclear response level high enough to ward off a possible Soviet intervention on the part of the Egyptians..
You know the support for Israel by GOP/white Evangelicals is because the need to have the Rapture occur, where Jesus returns, the Christians ascend to heaven and the Jews are sent hell, except for a small minority that will suffer through the Tribulation until they convert and are saved, right?
That's wrong. It's fringe at best.
Christian support is based on Genesis 12. Read it sometime.
Please don't feed the troll.
"Fringe" LOL!!!!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/
Yeah, those 80 million copies of "Left Behind", the movie franchises, seminars, etc. say different.
You should probably try reading anything sometimes.
You really want to keep going with this?
The Left Behind series are fiction, and they are definitely fringe beliefs. Catholics, the largest Christian denomination for example, don't accept that.
You should learn what fiction is.
Can't believe Bari came out of the woodwork all the sudden, Lynn?
Hmmm.....trying to "cancel" people....criticizing their "Free Speech"....trying to shut down "tough conversations".....I wonder why this time is different?
Lol. Yeah. She's the hypocrite I said she was, and so are you.
This is a minefield into which I tread with trepidation. Bari, we love you but this would have been far more powerful if you had kept Trump out of it. Pew reported that before the 2020 presidential election, nearly three-quarters of Jewish adults disapproved of the job Trump was doing as president, while just 27% rated him positively – far below the 65% who approved of President Barack Obama’s job performance in 2013. Despite Trump's unprecedented support of Israel - the Jewish state - by moving the embassy, supplying military aid and fomenting the peace deals with Arab states. So it's a fair political point despite what you think of the man who made it.
Kanye's statements are something entirely different. He may be troubled but he is also routinely feted and lionized in certain quarters. And the beast that he was feeding is awakening in a very frightening pace; not least among those institutions of "higher learning" that should know better. Kanye's points weren't political but rather of they type that led to pogroms and worse. The danger in them needs to be taught, especially to the young who don't remember why we say "never again."
I modified what I posted above, in particular for You, Sir Bruce.
I normally try to read most-a the comments on these articles. I'll skip it this time, because they're most 100% predictable. You in the MAGA crowd simply go ballistic and berserk when the least bit of negativity comes up about Your HERO, the Donald.
The problem is: You're, basically, no better than the Woke acolytes when it comes to being delusional. Sorry if that hurts Your feelings, but it's true. Your delusions are certainly *different* than, and pretty much the opposite of, the delusions of the Woke. But delusions are delusions.
Simple litmus test:
Why didn't Trump just tell Jewish people to dump the Dems and vote for him? Why call them ungrateful?
Answer: As one poster wrote, all he wants is loyalty and devotion. Funny how that's *exactly* what the MAGA crowd gives him, whether he deserves it or not.
How many times have a read how Trump is an arsehole, written by somebody who voted for him. Who doesn't like him, *personally,* but voted for him. Weeeell, You liked him enough to vote for him, right? A guy who tried to overthrow the elected President. That's the sad, but indisputable fact of the matter.
And let's be honest, okay? You'll vote for him again, right? The guy that, not only threatened, but attempted, to overthrow the Constitutionally-elected government. Funny how many-a You claim to support the Constitution. Hypocrisy being one-a the oldest delusions ever, right?
Now, we went back and forth about whether what Trump did was *legal* or not. The guy that came up with the plan, John Eastman, tried to disavow his actions after the plan fell through. He's a constitutional lawyer, so that tells me a lot.
So I think Bari makes a pretty good point. When it's the choice between the Dems and Trump, there isn't muchuva choice between the lesser of two evils. They both feed in the same gutter.
As far as Kanye, I agree with both You and M. Bari. The problem, as I see it, is that Blacks are ascendant these days and can do no wrong. Even when they do wrong, it's not wrong. CAN'T be said to be wrong. That'd be RACIST.
Right? Well, if so, it's gonna take a lotta these kinds-a "racists" to straighten this mess out. All the above IMO, 'course.
Well jt, you have you facts a bit skewed. You say "You liked him enough to vote for him, right? A guy who tried to overthrow the elected President." You forget that the election was in November 2020; January 6th was in 2021. After the election. And no, Trump didn't cover himself in glory but neither did those who screeched it was "an insurrection."
Would I vote for Trump again? In a primary vs. DeSantis. No way. In a general against some leftist Dem who has no business running even a lemonade stand - (think Harris, Buttigieg, Beto et al) yeah probably. Why? Because we'd be in a whole lot better place now if America hadn't elected a senile imbecile. And Biden has threatened civil liberties way more than Trump. In fact, Trump never arrested even one political opponent. Some Orange Dictator.
I didn't get the facts skewed. I didn't write very well. I think the fact that You voted for this charlatan makes it difficult for You to see him objectively. Which is also a fact.
I'm glad You won't vote for a Dem for President. Also happy You won't vote for Trump in the primary, if DeSantis runs. But it's not a question of people covering themselves in glory calling what Trump did an attempted insurrection. It's a question of the facts of the matter and that Trump *did* attempt it.
I can't see how anyone could vote for Trump, after seeing him try that. But, first, You would hafta see Trump objectively enough to know that he did, right? Then it's a question of how can You overlook something like that?
Look jt, Trump should not be President again. For many reasons. He'll be too old. He's too divisive. His embrace of Eastman's goofy plan raises questions about this judgment. We just need new blood. Trump is old news and I wish he had he grace to slip away.
jt you make a mistake in thinking I'm a Trump acolyte or view him as a HERO. If I were, I would want him to run again. I have stated repeatedly here that he is too old and too divisive. If I were, I wouldn't agree with others here that he's kind of an asshole. Does that sound like hero-worship? Sure I voted for him over Biden. What sane person would vote for a senile imbecile, not least the insane policies he mumbled. It's kind of insulting to be called a servile, starry eyed zombie Trumpster when all I did is point out that Trump was making a fair political point while West was summoning a very dark beast. Maybe I'm not the one who leaps to conclusions? Just think about it.
My point was more general than only being directed at You, Sir Bruce.
But if You're gonna vote for Trump in '24, then I think most-a my points stand.
And You're being ridiculous using words like "a servile, starry eyed Zombie Trumpster." But I noticed You didn't answer the question I posed in the litmus test, did You? Trump made a stupid mistake, to call the Jewish people "ungrateful." He had the option to make his point, without slurring a whole group-a people, right?
What if he'd said that about You and Yours? "You're whole 'whatever-group' is a bunch of ungrateful 'whatevers'." Is that really the way to get people to vote for You?
So I'll ask You and anyone who reads this: Why is it simply *impossible* to see that Trump did something pretty foolish. (Going by what M. Weiss posted. Dunno the exact context.) Given there are so many *better* ways of saying that he would like to get their votes.
Nowhere in his tweet did Trump use the word "ingrate." If it's ok to observe that Hispanics are deserting the Democrats because they are antithetical to the values of family and faith and the many Hispanics embrace, then why is it out of bounds to question the continued support by American Jews of Democrats who are antithetical to the best interests of Israel? Or worse, openly anti-Semitic. (the Squad?). Saying Trump was being both misquoted and mistreated doesn't imply unqualified support for him.
Dear jt, I don’t need to re-enter into our friendly debate again, but respectfully,
I just want to affirm that I believe the OPPOSITE is true, that your feelings against Trump have YOU as the blinded one, in spite of all you write (and you *have* written your position well!), but much to all our danger. Thanks and God bless
Thank You Ma'am. G*d bless You as well.
We are an immovable rock facing an unstoppable force. Trump is a force that needs to be stopped.
Here's the thing. ONE-a us can see that when Trump was President, he did some good things, and he did some bad things. Like any President. You see that? Or not?
But he did one REALLY BAD THING when he tried to overthrow the Constitutionally elected government. This is a FACT. It's INDISPUTABLY a fact.
Or do You deny this is a fact?
Or do You give Trump a pass on trying to ignore a democratic election?
I don't recall You ever facing these (in my mind, INDISPUTABLE) FACTS.
I'm willing to go part way: The election wasn't *fair.* There wasn't enough coverage in the media about Biden's apparent lapses. But the media, liberal and Fox? I don't expect them to be fair. Do You?
There were lapses in procedures followed. Some was justified by COVID being rampant. Some probably weren't. I need to study it more.
But will You go part way? The idea that the election was *stolen* is a fantasy made up by Trump. Most likely it's just because he's a sore loser. That's the personality he's displayed anyway.
I think I see both sides. You "...Friends?"
We disagree NUMBER ONE that “the force to be stopped” is Trump.
We disagree that the level of GOOD President Trump did was just on the scale of “any other president” (Much less this one!!! God help us!!!).
There is no need to go any further.
No, it’s not a “fact.” Just another misrepresentation of Trump’s intentions and actions so redolent in his entire presidency.
I cannot convince you of the truth of Jan 6 any more than I could convince you earlier of anything we have spoken of. There are better, more informed sources and true accounts for this. But you won’t listen to them either? There is nothing I can do here.
Just please reread Orwell, just as an exercise, without citing “Trump” as the villain. But as the institutionalized villain. God save us all.
You make the same mistake that many do. They are unable to separate their political posturing from the importance of standing up for what’s right for Israel. Bruce is 100% correct. I hate Trump as well and hope he never runs again. At the same time, I make my decisions for Israel irrespective of the political consequences.
I'm not making any attempt to stand up for Jews, one way or the other. You'll vote according to Your own political posturing.
If You vote for Trump in '24, You're voting for someone who attempted to overthrow the government. You may see that as a wise move for Jews to make. I think it's a bad move for *anyone* to make. To me, people are people. And people that will vote for Trump, knowing what he did, or willfully ignoring the facts of the matter, are making a big mistake.
For whatever reason.
You are saying that Bruce agrees with what Trump said because he is a Trump supporter. That’s wrong. Bruce agrees with what Trump said because Trump was correct in so far as Israel is concerned.
| If You vote for Trump in '24, You're voting for someone who attempted to overthrow the government. |
That's it in a nutshell.
Baruch HaShem Brian “mother Theresa” arrived! ☝️☝️☝️☝️
Another great essay!
Excellent response
👍👍
I respectfully disagree. If your quote is accurate he referenced American Jews not Judaism as a religion. He also said those American Jews should realize what is at stake as far as Israel is concerned. I think he is right about that. The stakes are very high in my non-Jewish opinion. The current administration and the one that preceded Trump's have not favored Israel. To the extent that they favor Iran and aid its pursuit of nuclear weapons. I do not think there is any denying this. Perhaps that is why Biden is so cavalierly discussing Armageddon. I also think the odious Hilary Clinton would have been the same. This is a consequence of all that "elitism". Some of us are expendable. And it is not just Jews. We used to talk about the melting pot and American exceptionalism. Those were real things and they grew out of our common Judaeo Christian heritage. Most of us on on your side.
Your holiday sounds lovely. I greatly admire the Jewish people for your perseverance. Enjoy your celebration.
Spot on Lynne from your Non J opinion now I wonder why the J brain can’t understand what is at stake unless everything the media, social media and the polls keep selling us is absolute bullshit, and come November we are in for the shock of our lives perhaps we will be engulfed by a red wave - God Willing God Bless America
White Evangelicals/GOP support Israel because their religious faith deems it necessary for Amageddon and the Rapture to occur, in which Jesus comes back, the Christians ascend to heaven, the Jews are sent to hell....except for a small minority who will suffer through Tribulations, then repent and be saved.
Uh...no. This is about as accurate as saying all Jews are dishonest, money-grubbing bankers. A small minority of Christians may have some similar opinions to what you describe, although in my 25+ years as a pastor, I've never heard anyone wish for the Jews to be sent to hell. But most actual Christians hold deeply nuanced views, and they support Israel because it is the only legitimate democracy in the region, because they remember the holocaust, and see the need for a Jewish nation, and because they feel a spiritual kinship with Jews.
Please don't feed the troll.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/
Those 80 million copies of the "Left Behind" books, movies series, seminars, etc. say different. Sorry. So, uh...yes.
"Small minority" LOL!!! Next you be trying to convince people that white Southern Baptists are actually fond of "the coloreds."
You really want to keep going with this?
Yes, separate Jewish people from the Jewish religion and you have the answer.
Well that is true of a lot of folks from a lot of different beliefs.
Bari I have to lean towards what T Reid says. I have often wondered why the Jewish people are putting up with those who treat them like they are in a toxic relationship. It is like the same story. My spouse only beats me because it was my fault, or they truly do love me. No, they are really ass wipes. This goes the same for other minority groups who put up with the same old shit from the Liberals.
Warren and Sanders routinely want to put blame on the Jewish people from greedy banks (code words), and to boycott Israel. AOC and the toxic squad would gladly through Israel to Iran and Hezbollah and have Israel collapse. Jewish people are attacked in New York on the streets. Why the hate speech which says the Jewish people are really the rulers and get rich off the poor workers. Wonder where we have heard that kind of speech before. If you think that AOC and the Squad cannot generate the support for dumping Isarel, then I do not know what to say other than no one thought the short funny looking guy with a weird mustache could control a country either.
The Jewish people need to support those who will help them and offer the support they need and maybe actually help the Middle East find peace. Remember, even Henry K was against supplying weapons during the conflict where Isarel was surprised by the surrounding countries. Not until Isarel threatened to nuke the opposing countries capitals did the US change its stance. If Henry K, a good Irish boy (sarcasm) can take such a position, how much harder is it for Communists like AOC, Sanders, Warren, and others to do the same?
Trump for all of his faults (which are many) at least did something for Israel and the people. No wonder he is confused and upset as to why the Jewish people chose to go back to that toxic relationship with the Democrats and especially a demented old guy who was friends with Robert Byrd a true KKK believer. Tell me anything the Dems have done to help secure Israel's future?
I make no apologies for mean language, but sometimes the truth does hurt and has to be said bluntly.
What a great essay!
Bari, out of the woodwork, to engage in "cancel culture" and go after people exercising their "Free Speech" and having "tough conversations"
I wonder why it's different this time?
Democrats are constantly bringing up George Soros, too.
Bari, I appreciate Common Sense so much. As a Christian man, who takes the Bible seriously (including the Torah!) I have tremendous appreciation and respect for Jews, and the undeniably Jewish heritage of my own faith.
Looking from the outside, I do think perhaps you are overreacting to Trump’s comments (I’m not a fan of Trump, btw). Objectively, those words do not have to be received as “the toxic notion of the ungrateful Jew.” Without more context, it feels like you are trying to manufacture antisemitism where it isn’t found. Unfortunately, there is plenty of it out there - you don’t need to make this sort of stretch - just use a more unambiguous example. As it stands, that section of your post sounds a bit like TDS.
Please receive this a FRIENDLY feedback - I really do appreciate you and CS, as well as Jews, Judaism, and Israel.
A gentlemanly and clear response. Well said.
❤️
Considering that Donald Trump's son-in-law is an Orthodox Jew and his daughter converted to the faith, I would say you would be hard-pressed to find a man (let alone former President) who is more supportive and/or accepting of the Jewish people.
However, it can be said that Trump is guilty of making an ambiguous statement, but we've known he does things like that since he came down the escalator.
Lol....Trump makes "ambiguous" statements.
"the former president is criticizing American Jews for being ungrateful, commanding them to show him proper respect—and issuing a veiled threat if they do not".
Maybe I’m just a dense Gentile but what exactly is the threat, Bari? As a self-avowed Jewish “victim”, you’re entitled to you opinion, but it seems to me, and I would guess most objective Jews, that Trump was referring to the existential threat posed to Israel by Biden’s re-embrace of the Iran nuclear farce (JCPOA) he and Obama tried to shove down our collective throats. Even we Gentiles are not oblivious to the potential unraveling of the historic Abraham Accords Trump negotiated with Israel, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain as a result.
Of course, I could be wrong. Perhaps the threat you refer to is of a much more personal variety. Exposing the hypocrisy of Jews like you who claim to be under threat from the mean orange man while Blacks and Latinos are literally being slaughtered in cities all across America because of policies implemented by democrats you obviously support is certainly more visceral. Maybe Kanye deserves some grace for appreciating the contrast.
If you are an American Conservative who has been paying attention you have long since learned to lower your expectations. We have learned to live with the strange reality that ours is a culture in which wealthy, sanctimonious progressives bemoan their “victimhood” while slandering those with opposing views or daring to point out the real victims whose blood now fills the streets.
YES—
“Blacks and Latinos …being slaughtered…because of policies implemented by Democrats…”
“If you are an American conservative…” Yes. May I add, “while wealthy sanctimonious progressives“ WHO OWN THE MEDIA AND CONTROL THE NEWS…
Trump promotes himself and the great good he’d done because otherwise, who would?
Not bad, Tim, not bad. A bit over the top and personal, but really fairly good, if not fairly made, points.
I made my own comments separately, but did want to say specifically here that PARTICULARLY if we disagree, engaging in honest dialogue is useful as long as people stay cool, avoid name-calling, and both LISTEN carefully, and work hard first to inform thrmselves, think clearly, and thrn write carefully.
Amen! I see Bari getting a lot of flack on here - from all sides. One of the best things about Bari is that she has a diverse guests and readership. And if we all behave, we might just learn something about why people hold different views. We may not change our minds, but there is value in understanding where people are coming from.
Exactly!! Honest dialogue solves so many problems. But it requires listening, which requires openness, which requires emotional maturity, something seemingly rare any more.
I just ordered a book written in I think the 1940’s arguing “evil” is nothing more or less than immaturity, which in more modern terms might be what I decided this moment to call an Undifferentiated Personality Disorder.. I have a strong sense it is if anything more relevant today.
Honest dialogue is a lost art. The world has turned into one long episode of Jerry Springer
It has always been difficult. Perhaps the most important global contribution of Western civilization is to have placed a premium on it, rather than relying on power structures of one derivation or another.
I honestly believe that the only alternative to negotiated compromise via emotionally healthy dialogue is violence. And what Trump understands is that such violence is in fact the explicit underpinning of all left wing anti-Liberal authoritarianism.
All sides need to calm down and understand this. Once violent ideologues get power, the world inherently stops making sense.
And to the point here, the Left in aggregate HATES Israel in many ways and for many reasons.
Bari Weiss simply regurgitated what she read at WaPo, probably NYT, and what she heard from KJ-P. I can’t give her much credit for the column.
What I am hearing from her are fear and pain. I am not Jewish, but I am conservative, and people have been HATING on me for many years in unbelievably nasty ways. Its scary and hard to comprehend that the same people happy to hold the door for you, and who live next to you, can so publicly hate you and wish for your removal from society.
It must be much worse being Jewish, and any mother of a newborn has to be concerned about the future.
She WAS at thr NYT, but remember she very publicly repudiated their GroupThink and left. It was a very brave thing to do.
So, again, I disagree with here here and have articulated my reasons why, but am far from ready to judge her or slot her into the category Them, of one sort or another.
Each of us, in our own ways and for our own reasons, is fearful. It is a scary time. There are so many things to go wrong some days its hard not to just wish the damned apocalypse would just start, so we can get it over with. I see this pattern particularly pronounced in the many so willing to abandon their liberties and lives for the subjective safety of submergence in a Collective of one sort or another. Seemingly, this time calls for more courage than most people possess.
I can control my own life, my own words, my own decisions, and I try to do so in a positive, constructive way, and accept that my views are often contrary in some ways to EVERY group I encounter.
I do value what she has done here, and suggest you give all this a second look.
Your comment appears to be in response to my own comment. How you arrived at that word salad from my single sentence is a mystery, though perhaps you thought it a good entre for your own Sustack. Thanks, but I will pass.
One, she is not the birth mother. Perhaps maternal instincts, absent hormonal fluxes associated with delivery, still came forth for her, but I think that part of your argument is pretty much just sexist fluff. To say nothing of cloyingly embarrassing.
If you think the pushback on Bari Weiss' column here is "HATING" or particularly nasty, you might need some reconsideration of the comments here. And your own seeming self-satisfaction as a "moderate".
If you think her quitting the NYT (she really was being ostracized there, so it was more like constructive dismissal) is significant but you haven't considered why she went to work there in the very first place as some sort of comeback to my assertion, you've likely got cognition issues.
And if you think that being "fearful" is some sort of excuse for the poor assessment she made of Trump's words or, worse, inserting Trump into a non-sequitur assessment of Ke, then it is you who really needs to give her piece and the comments - including my own - a "second look".
Bloomberg, WaPo, probably NYT, KJ-P, and many other fellow travelers of the Left and the Democrat Party were fast to press with the "it's anti-semitic" narrative - you know, the way MSNBC, CNN, etc., get their talking points in sync early in the day. Pointing out that Bari Weiss followed suit is a ripe criticism.
I was trying to humanize the narrative, but if you want to turn everyone into abstractions and judge them, have at it.
I would simply suggest that making constructive dialogue impossible is a bad strategy from any perspective I can see.
Exactly. Let's ignore the trolls, if we can. (I don't always manage it).
I agree - I didn’t hear any veiled threat above the threat that more Israel-hating squad members are rallying their kind to pull even more support of Israel and the OBidens willing to make insane deals with Iran...
Good observation. Twisting President Trump’s words is common. But this is pure invention. Unfortunately, it’s common as well.
Spot On.......anti-Semitism is a cancer among the progressive base of the Democratic Party. Look no further than academia where Jewish students are harassed and discriminated against at many of our universities. Omar and her squad members have made numerous ("it's all about the Benjamins") anti-semitic remarks with no push back from Pelosi, Biden or Schumer for fear of alienating their woke base. Unfortunately, both the Labour Party in England and the Democratic Party have shown an anti-Israel and anti-Jewish bias. Moreover, I support Trump's viewpoint that American Jews who support the Democratic Party are either naive or willfully blind to what's occurring their rank and file.
If there was any need to prove how bad things are for Jews now in America, the highest-liked comment on this article on Common Sense (very ironic!) is not one commenting on the exploding anti-semitism in the US, on West’s unchallenged vitriolic statements, but one vigorously defending Trump’s attitude towards the ungrateful Jews!
Trump and his son in law Jared Kushner did more for Jews worldwide than any democrat past or present. When people show you who they are, believe them the first time. Left leaning Jews in the US still don’t understand the Antisemitism around them. They will continue to ignore, minimize and laugh about it until it comes for them, and it will come for them. History has shown us time and again. I am religiously liberal but when my people are threatened, I will defend and stand up. Some of us will never go like lambs to the slaughter ever again and we won’t be Jews with trembling knees. We know it starts with words (but never ends there.)
Please vote for republicans in the midterms - as an independent, a Jew and as a citizen of the rapidly deteriorating state of the world, I implore you. The Biden/Obama legacy is one of chaos, power vacuum and self-immolation. It would’ve taken a dystopian imagination to have anticipated how far and quickly we have fallen (& in tandem with the values of our 401Ks.) We literally cannot afford any more of this.
I pray the republican nominee isn't Trump.
I am going to guess one of the reasons you don’t want Trump because we will back to a place where Democrats are attacking him non -stop. I say “bring it on”! I will never vote Democratic again. THEY are the racists.
Actually, that's not it. I can't vote for any politician that undermines democracy as a whole. I liked a lot of his middle east policy, and I can't stand the woke left, but destroying the bedrock of our society is a price I won't pay.
Yes! I have Black friends who said the same thing— “I will never vote Democrat again. Forty years! I am sorry and ashamed!”
“Bring it on!!” Yes to you. :) High-five.
Also, I say the same thing as you!: “this ain’t Grandma’s Democrats.” If only I could convince my 90-year-old grandmother and so many others in my native blue state, who are entirely conservative yet believe everything CNN tells them. That ALONE would swing an election. If people just would believe the truth. God bless.
For us the phrase "never again" has a real meaning and Israel is where it means the most.
Correction: people didn’t go “ like lambs” to their deaths. They were held at gunpoint, raped, tormented, pillaged.
Yes, some did comply without much protest at the beginning not imagining what horror could be in store for them and some fought like lions and died fighting back. In no way do I mean to imply that Jews did not fight back. I mean to make the point that we should not ever be surprised at what could be done to us nor lulled into a complacency where we don’t understand where this type of thing can and does lead.
I used to wonder how the Holocaust happened. How could people let it happen. But I feel like I am watching the same pre-Holocaust things play our before my eyes. Don't speak against the narrative. Don't arm yourself. Embrace string central government.
I see it too. I am disgusted that all of my Democrat friends are going along it. I just don't know what to say or do anymore. I share articles from Common Sense and there's never a response. How much of that is FB burying it or people not caring, I can't say. I also notice younger generations watching Youtube rather than reading articles. I'm afraid the ones who should be reading are not doing so.
Jews did not fight back, not until the Warsaw Ghetto revolt. It seems no one really believed the danger was so acute. Certainly, German Jews were so integrated in German society that they could not imagine the unimagineable. And what could they do? With your children and wife at your back, what could you do? These were not commandos. They were businessmen, accountants, ordinary people.
Here is our mistake…NOW.
It’s happening again…and your neighbors won’t help you.
Correct 👏👏.
If there is need to prove the intellectual bankruptcy of the Left, it's seen in this absurd effort to portray warnings about the Left's anti-Semitism as themselves anti-Semitic.
I totally agree with you. This isn’t some kind of joke that should be brushed under the table. Kanye has 22 million followers, Jewish population in total is 13.5 million. That’s a lot of people listening to his rants. I believe the anti semitism exhibiting itself all over the world is just the beginning of something far more nefarious . Stop explaining or apologizing to the people who hate us! Stop giving Holocaust museum tours to people who hate us. We are not quivering Jews anymore .
As someone who only started following Ye on SM after his most recent grift, I'd like to hope that there are many like me who have started following for the trainwreck and not a ignorant pop culture fans. But I honestly doubt that given how popularized anti-Semitism has become again. I've had to unfollow several right wing accounts that were providing excellent commentary on the state of American affairs only to show that they too were anti-semites. I have always considered myself an ardent ally to the Jewish community, liberal, conservative, or otherwise. I can assure you that if the time comes, I will be standing shoulder to shoulder with you in the breach. I hope there are more like me who feel the same.
Thank you! I hope so, too!!!
Thank you we call you in Jewish terminology “a mench”
That would be a "mensch".
We need to fight back in a different way. Begin by not voting for the Democrats. Vote Republican.
Don't fight back, just stand firm!
Got it! ❣️
I for one give little credence to celebrities. It is just more blah, blah, blah and what really struck me was his bitterness about his ex-wife.
Unfortunately, there are 50million (or maybe 30 excluding the bots) who DO follow his every word, lyric, interview and lap it up. If just a tiny fraction are influenced against Jews or heaven forbid use it as the motivation they were looking for to torment violence against visible Jews walking to synagogue, the impact could be horrific.
To be succinct, for many of my fellow American Jews today : Leftism Trumps Judaism.
Truer words were never said. Among Jews in Los Angeles, they believe they must "toe the company line" because their jobs and social relationships are jeopardized if they identify as a Republican, conservative or (God forbid) a Trump supporter.
Yes, for many American Jews, leftism is a religion, more powerful than Judaism.
Trumps says a lot of things that make sense in a way that might not. In this case he was spot on.
100% correct.
Yes. This is very true. But there is more to it. See my note further down about Un-Jews.
Donald Trump was President of the USA for four years. During that time, we started zero new wars, Russia invaded zero neighbors (unlike in the Bush, Obama and Biden admins), illegal immigration was suppressed, wage growth exceeded inflation, income taxes both personal and corporate were reduced, the Abraham Accords made progress in the Middle East, ISIS was eliminated and the US murder rate decreased for 3 years of his four year term. This "clear and present danger" you speak of...where is it, aside from Twitter?
👏👏👏
🤣😂🤣😂
Yes, please list the Biden admin accomplishments if you don't mind.
However, your easy dismissal of the successful Trump admin based on COVID, which has continued to be a mess throughout the Biden admin and also in many other nations, seems like TDS to me.
In answer to your question, T:
The Interstate closest to you just might get paved. And on that same Interstate there might be charging stations for electric cars. And the electronic chips in those cars just might be built in the USA. And the electricity producing those chips just might be coming in through an expanded electrical grid. And actually some (but not most) Republicans actually voted for it. Oh, and I forgot, lowered drug prices in Medicare for some medicines (not voted for by Republicans..)
BTW, Trump's vaccine push was the best thing he ever did..
Kudos on that.
Great response, top notch. Thanks and all the best.
Biden (AKA "Malarky Man") is a far greater danger to American and global security. Biden is weak, incompetent, senile and (after his humiliating Afghanistan withdrawal) Russia, China and Iran are aggressively pursuing their militaristic goals.
"China knows better than transgress with Taiwan".........just another Democrat defender of Biden - Harris (AKA :Dumb & Dumber). Talking about getting educated......didn't Kamala deliver a forceful speech at the DMZ hailing our "strong alliance with the Republic of North Korea".
What are you going on about Robert? We are discussing Jew hatred
A “veiled threat?”
The level of social desirability biased and elitism has taken hold of our managerial and professional class is completely and utterly astounding.
Half the Democratic Party wouldn’t piss on Israel if it was on fire. An honest-to-god 10-20% would be happy seeing the Jews wiped off the face of the Earth.
Trump calls you out on your bullshit and now it’s a “veiled threat” 🤣🤣
Hey Bari, how much more money do we have to send to Ukraine and the Azov battalion (you know, LITERAL NAZIS) at the behest of a bunch of neoliberals before enough is enough?
The Dems fun Nazis and you write puff pieces about Zelensky. Trump calls you out on the astounding stupidity of this and it’s a “veiled threat.”
It’s embarrassing.
But hey, just like with women letting themselves get displaced by a bunch of biological men in dresses, if you don’t want to stand up for yourselves, why the hell should the rest of us waste our energy doing it for you?
I agree with much of what you've wrote though disagree with the premise that we shouldn't stand with the Jewish community when a good few of their own wouldn't do so. I feel the same for the US as well. Some allies aren't worth sacrificing and the Jewish community, by and large deserve defense, even if liberal Jews like Bari fail to grasp the reality of their situation.
Agree 100%. My husband and I stand behind Israel AND the Jewish people in whatever country they abide.
Yah, I agree lol.
True. Many of my relatives will not stand with Israel. I don’t understand it. I guess they will stand for it when there’s no place left for us to go.
There are polls that show many Americans would not resist an invasion.
A little harsh but I agree. Your one of those toxic males aren't you? If so, good for you.
Yes I am ;)
The best kind in a fight.
Russell, nothing like a strident comment to set the tone. To your point that half of Dems wouldn't piss on Israel if it was on fire (the description is colourful!) I will have to agree that a few younger Democrat Congresspeople today are rather (very) misguided in their attitude towards Israel at best, and idiotic and anti Semitic at worst. Happy to see Jews wiped off the face of the earth from that honest to God ten to twenty per cent? Not sure what publication you might have found that in..
You didn't make that one up, did you?
But a small fact: In 2016 the Obama Admin (the one Republicans judged the least friendly Admin to Israel of all..remember?) signed a ten year deal with Israel worth $38 billion dollars in military aid. Trump would never admit that all that good stuff flowing to his pal Netanyahu was signed by the man both of them despised. That wouldn't have served their narrative as bosom buddies joined at the hip.
Trump makes the juvenile mistake in harping that all Jews here should be thankful on his efforts to help Israel, not understanding that American Jews can be quite (very) critical of Israel's policies and still love their spiritual homeland. And they can dislike Trump no matter what he does in Jerusalem.
You say the Dems fun(d) Nazis in Ukraine. Since 2014 close to twenty billion dollars has been sent to Ukraine in funding their military with armaments and training. Four of those years was under the Trump Administration. If I can do the math, I would say that that half of that twenty billion came with Trump's blessing (but that's right, that first impeachment, can't forget about that..)
At least there was an impeachment of Trump. We are still waiting on an investigation of quid pro Joe and the prosecutor investigating Burisma, Hunter's benefactor, who was fired to free up some of that foreign aid.
Give it time if the pollsters are right, Lynne. If the GOP gains control of the House, come January '23 you may get your wish..
I do not care for them either. Truth be told I am weary to the bone of the chattering class and those who derive their livelihood therefrom. And this even though the polls are purportedly leaning right this cycle. I do think the FBI and its overlord the DoJ need a perusal as does Hunter Biden's income.
"Weary to the bone..."
That's me, exactly.
What you said is unfortunately true…and it hurts to have to read it. Israel stands up for itself. It has to. It’s shameful and infuriating.
Damn right it is.
Aka, thank you very much for the kind words ;)
Enjoy your time at shul tonight. I wish I could be going. I have lots of fun memories of Simchat Torah (and filling glasses with spirits - Jews can be real party animals during services). As for Trump's comment, "US Jews have to get their act together and appreciate what they have in Israel—Before it is too late!” That does not sound like a threat...it sounds more like a warning of what may happen if the US continues pushing Biden's nuke deal with Iran and continues Obama's desire to put distance between the US and Israel.
Yes, correct. Bari is very brave in speaking out about anti Semitism, one of the very few democrats who do so. But here political blinders get in the way of seeing this clearly, as you have noted.
Yep, yep!
"And that the former president is criticizing American Jews for being ungrateful, commanding them to show him proper respect—and issuing a veiled threat if they do not."
This part is the lie that undoes this article. There is no command in Trump's post, and there is no threat in Trump's post. There is a WARNING - a very legitimate one. Bari admits its legitimacy in the rest of this column, as the left-wing movement poses serious threats to Jews. Yet she acts as though it's heresy to follow those facts to their logical conclusion: Support the movements that defend Jews or fall victim to those who hate Jews.
Interestingly enough, this article drops several hours after National Review's Philip Klein wrote a piece on exactly the same collection of public statements. No citation, Bari? I suspect that reading Klein's column inspired this one in its entirety.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/10/can-people-just-stop-talking-about-the-jews/
I fully agree. Ye's statement and Trump's statement are not related in any way.
Bari's TDS has led her to complain that the biggest supporter that Israel has ever had has somehow criticized Jews. He's sounding the alarm about how dangerous the Dems are for peace in the middle east.
Not just criticized, threatened. How ironic that Trump's comment is perceived as the threat to Jews.
Readers can disagree regarding whether there is a veiled threat in Trump's statement, but, regardless, that statement does not undo the rest of this article.
People can disagree with anything, but some disagreements are far less rational than others.
As for the article, it is a trope at this point that otherwise good writeups are undermined by unnecessary, gratuitous mentions of Donald Trump (besides the fact that including that Trump quote made it very plain that she just rewrote Philip Klein's article without citation). Moreover, the weakness of the claim that Trump was being anti-Semitic is discrediting.
I didn't read Trump's statement a a veiled threat, but given Trump's history of turning on "friends" that he deems no longer sufficiently grateful, I can understand where Bari is coming from. The main point of my comment is that one, rational disagreement should not discount the remainder of someone opinion.
Edited: I linked the wrong NR column initially. The point stands, though.
Bari, I love you and say with all due respect, your TDS is showing. I have often wondered why my Jewish American friends look down on the GOP platform and continue to vote DEM. Donald Trump is fearful that one more DEM controlled cycle may result in the loss of Israel. That’s NOT a veiled threat. That’s acknowledging reality.
I don't see Kanye's and Trump's comments in the same light. Kanye's comments were clearly anti-Semitic, of that there can be no question.
Trump's comments were political in nature, and similar to when any politician talks about the "black vote", "the gay vote" or the "hispanic vote." I don't think any of those discussions are particularly interesting or useful, however they are not racist, homophobic or xenophobic...they are simply commenting on the general voting tendency of pre-defined voting bloc, as if they were a monolith.
And Trump pointing out that the fact that he is more popular among Jews in Israel than in the US is anti-Semitic? Look at poling (which I am sure Bari is familiar with) and you will see that is a basic truth. It is what it is.
Do American Jews support Israel, in general? I don't know one way or another, but I know for certain the political party most vote for do not. They vote for a party with several members who ARE explicit anti-Semites (not the "dog whistle" type) and who the party has refused to condemn when they've made those comments.
Alternatively, they deride the most philo-Semitic president in US history (aside from maybe Truman). Why? Mostly because of Blue-anon conspiracy theories.
Sorry, but I think this is a TDS moment for Bari.
Check out my newest post on how modern liberalism is a fundamental anti-human ideology here:
https://substack.com/inbox/post/78187191
Total TDS article from Bari however, I’m not surprised! Mazeltov for the baby (what was it a boy or a girl) enjoy what’s left of succot!
A girl, I believe I heard on Twitter.
Bari enjoy your time as a family. But also remember as Kayne says stupid things, he has no power. Trump maybe an I only say maybe because I have no idea of the ideas he was trying to express. Most likely that he was a strong advocate for Israel and wanted to get more agreement's done with other countries like Saudi Arabia and secure a safer future for the Jewish people.
Yet American Jews help elect Slow Joe who's no friend of Israel and thinks more of getting a bad agreement with Iran than the safety of the Jewish people.
I fail also to understand how the American Jewish people support a politician who stems from the party of the KKK.
So dance and enjoy but say a prayer that Brandon and crew doesn't do more damage to make our military more soft and general nutural. Because eventually the Liberals will abandon Israel and the Jewish people.
Bari, I love Common Sense. I don’t have to agree with everything I read here, but pretty much everything I read is thoughtful, or otherwise (in the case of today’s entry) coming from a place I understand and respect. So no accusations or name calling from me.
Here is my take on President Trump’s remarks. I think he is asking the same question I have been asking my Jewish friends for years: Why do you keep voting Democrat when the Democrats dump all over Israel? My Jewish friends never answer that question, or at most they say “I don’t know.”
In any event, I did not in any way interpret President Trump’s comments as any kind of threat, veiled or otherwise. I don’t think he’d make that kind of threat. Not with a daughter who converted to Judaism and married a Jewish guy whom the president used as a trusted adviser.
Israel matters to me a lot. That is why I value the things President Trump accomplished for Israel. Not just moving the embassy, but also the Abraham Accords, which are another step in the right direction. I perceive that there are American Jews who do not value Israel as highly as I do. I can’t think of reasons why they wouldn’t, but I think there are clear reasons why they should. In any event, I think it’s those American Jews who do not value Israel sufficiently highly to whom President Trump was directing his remarks.
Thank you for this Substack. Keep up the great work.
Frank, I do know. They (not all, but the majority) vote Democrat because most are not one issue voters. The majority are pro-choice, don't want the "sundowning" of Social Security and Medicare, and numerous other issues they believe the GOP is on the wrong side of.
And Bari, as an patriot who thinks Trump is a serious threat to our democracy, I think you misread Trump's remarks. Yes, his statements can be clumsy, (to say the least) but to lump him with odious Kanye West regarding anti-Semitism taints the rest of your column.
I am a patriot, and I consider Biden, Obama, and the leaders of the Democrat (not Democratic - because they are far from it) party are very serious threats to our constitutional republic.
Perfect sum up of just about everything that keeps me up at night.
I also live in NYC, and have not met a single liberal who believes in open borders or "abortion at the end of the 9th month." My God, where are you getting your information?
I live in the South, am nearly 70 years old and have never, ever met a member of the KKK or any other White Supremacy/White Nationalist group. Do I believe they’re out there? Absolutely! You dismiss as lunacy that liberal Democrats believe in open borders or abortion until the end of pregnancy….why are such abortion rights codified in New York law then, not to mention the insane reaction to the idea of a border wall by liberals everywhere? Just because you “don’t know any” means nothing….
Thank you. I will offer two thoughts. The first, no good ever comes, I have learned over the past two years, from generalizing whole groups of people, whether it's the Jewish people or Trump supporters. It's important, always, to remember our humanity. The second, the only way to defend Ye West would be to say he was in the bouts of mania or schizophrenia (like John Nash, who was also accused of having made antisemitic slurs before being treated). Otherwise, it's a reminder of how easy it is to slip into blaming one group for our problems, especially in times of stress, despair, poverty and division.
There is always one group that people feel it's okay to demonize and dehumanize. We know that when people feel like they're at the bottom of society they need to point to one group that is lower than they are. See those people over there, they're the real problem.
And as we know, dehumanizing both the Black and the Jewish community has led to the worst horrors the world has ever known.
I used to not think we would ever live through anything like that again. But I look around and I see dehumanization everywhere. Hate is everywhere. That makes this moment seem very precarious indeed.
Please enjoy your new life and celebrate. And yes, dance. Grab the beauty while it's there. Mazel tov to you.
West is bipolar. I don’t think is is unrealistic to speculate that this is one of his manic states.
This crap is still in his head. Sure, maybe he’s mentally ill, but it just served him the latitude to be uninhibited, free flowing of ideas that he could have kept to himself.
When it comes to this I feel the same way Bari does. His views are absolute crap, no question, but West can be dismissed due to his diagnosis (he is literally manic and out of touch with reality). It is the behavior of those who are supposedly sane and who give him the time of day and publicize his views which is worrisome, as is the lack of pushback and overall complacency to this perspective. This says much more than the ramblings of maniac (again, the word is used literally).
Agree but the recipients of his mania is not perceived by them.
I have read and reread Trumps comments and for the life of me I think he is merely speaking the truth. The problem for Bari and several Jews that I know they are constantly seeing spiders where none exist. Bari I am frankly surprised that you even wrote this column. Ye is certifiably insane and Trump is stating truths that my Jewish friends should open their eyes and see reality. A party that hasn't run Talib et al. out the door is one I will never vote for under any circumstances. Chuck Schumer is a cheap political hack and would sell his Jewish brethren down the river in a minute just to hold onto his position and power. The people of Israel can see clearly who are their American friends and it surely is not the party of Obama and our pathetic current Dem President.
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Here's my problem with this article, which kind of ties into the cited Trump remarks. While antisemitism is clearly a big issue worldwide, and to a lesser extent in the United States, almost all of it in the US is committed by left-aligned individuals and groups. And no-one complains about it. Even Jews will rarely complain. Any pushback is hushed, and limited to Jewish or conservative circles. It never under any circumstances breaks out into the general MSM. Even noticing the antisemitism is actually some kind of hate crime, since it's implicitly saying that a left-aligned person or group is doing something bad. (Even though the Jews are overwhelmingly left-aligned, the progressives still don't like them).
So the uproar here about Kanye has nothing whatsoever to do with Jews or antisemitism. That's just the pretext. The actual complaint is that Kanye has recently become more vocal about his conservatism, so he's now coming under scrutiny. While they are clearly ignorant and antisemitic, the views that Kanye espoused are quite common among the black community, and mutual animosity between blacks and Jews in the US goes way, way back. There is nothing surprising in a particular black man believing this. I suspect that most other well-known rappers/hip hop artists believe the same.
This problem is somewhat analogous to the white cops killing unarmed black men problem. It's certainly not a good thing to be happening, but it's a trivial source of deaths among black people, and we are told that even noticing the 99.99% of the problem is racist.
Trump was observing that the Democrats hate the Jews, and yet the Jews overwhelmingly support the Democrats. The Republicans, especially the Christian segment, by and large like the Jews, and quite a lot, and yet the Jews despise the Republicans and consider them one of their biggest enemies. There's nothing wrong with pointing out that the Jewish political behavior appears to be highly irrational.
Getting back to Kanye. Jews are extremely influential in America, as they have been a very successful group. If the Jews wanted to, they could publicize and push back on the ignorance that is at the heart of the beliefs that Kanye is speaking. But they don't, because their allegiance to their political party exceeds their allegiance to themselves. I get it. It would be dangerous to complain. They'd be cast out of the progressive movement and be consigned to waste heap of deplorables like the rest of us. But if they don't, then they really surrender the right to object when non-leftists do the same things.
"The Republicans, especially the Christian segment, by and large like the Jews, and quite a lot"
A lot of that comes from our Judeo-Christian values- they are very very similar- which also, surprise!, are what this country was founded on.
Both also share the same mother's guilt! LOL (I'm Italian)
“…surrender the right to object…”
Well said.
So, Bari?
very well said
On Trump: "...the former president is criticizing American Jews for being ungrateful, commanding them to show him proper respect—and issuing a veiled threat if they do not."
Trump is not threatening Israel or Jews or demanding respect, he is reminding them that Iran and others are deadly threats and that the current Democratic Administration is cozying up to Iran. AFAIK Jews vote heavily Democratic in the US. It is a mystery why since the Democrats seem not to support Jewish interests.
Frankly, Bari, I expect better from you.
Maybe someone can interpret for me.
Not just the current Democrat administration, the previous one as well. And the odious Hillary inton is a supporters of the Palestinian cause as well.
previous ones...
You are correct.
Isn’t truth in the media the reason common sense exist? I think the “interpretation” of Trumps comments are completely false. Seems like a stretch.
"If you are an American Jew who has been paying attention you have long since learned to lower your expectations."
Look at the explosion in anti-Asian violence, where a disproportionate percentage of the attackers are black. Or the continuing racial tension between Hispanics and Blacks. Is the issue specifically anti-Semitism I wonder or is it a country that is fracturing into warring racial tribes?
There's only just ONE warring tribe. And Mr. West belongs to it.
Bari - I love you, but I’m afraid your distaste for Trump has gotten the better of you here. I’ll set aside the appalling anti-Semitism of Kanye West and your understandable revulsion, which I share.
Putting Donald Trump in the same piece, and seemingly linking him to Kanye, was a bridge too far; way too far. Trump has a good argument that he’s done more to support Israel than any other President. He has an even better argument that American Jews, taken as a whole, do not appreciate his dedication to Israel; or to the extent they do appreciate it, their enduring support for Democrats at the ballot box is contrary to Israel’s national interests. It’s Democrats, after all, who are behind the disgraceful Iran nuclear deal that gravely menaces Israel, and which Trump did his best to quash.
Now, one can say that being Jewish doesn’t necessarily mean supporting Israel no matter what. Judaism isn’t Zionism. Jews can criticize Israel, and Jews can criticize Trump. Fair enough. But it’s also fair to say that many American Jews fail to acknowledge in meaningful ways that Donald Trump is a great friend to Israel. Why pointing out that fact troubles you, even to the extent it’s linked to Kanye West, suggests you have a blind spot concerning Trump.
If you read this, thank you for your attention. I hope at some point we’ll get some details about your new baby. A blessed happening!
The fact is, Kanye West is a lunatic, a deranged genius artist (like many such talented people). I don't even take his rantings seriously nor do I pay any attention to his music. He's only interesting to the world right now because he's been a friend of Trump's, bucking the liberal Establishment.
But if one is judged by their friends, maybe Trump should suggest treatment and wish him well. To be a conservative, to go against a liberal establishment does not require joining forces with a "lunatic" frothing with hate.
Birds of a feather, both frothing lunatics.
Well said.
Dear Bari,
Don’t give a rats ass what Ye and these other idiots say. Go celebrate your heritage, your traditions, bring your baby and feel the love. And know there are many of us out here who respect Jews and dismiss the stereotypes.
🙏🏻🥰❣️