I imagine for a true musician, a Grammy nod is an insult. The best of the edgy, cool and rebellious flip the Grammies the bird and write more great music.
Some commenters are trying to turn this political. From a purely artistic point of view, I long ago realized if I stopped listening to music from artists more liberal than I, I'd be missing out on some of the greatest music ever recorded. Ted Nugent and Kid Rock can only take you so far...
Amen. I'm a conservative. It's a little discouraging when I find out how nutty my favorite artists are. But truly great artists should not be expected to know anything other than their art. I think that great artists are actually a little possessed. I would prefer they just "shut up and sing"
I like Ted Nugent. Can't stand his music. I've enjoyed some Kid Rock. But neither are as talented as Joni, or Dylan or Pete Townshend
And don't we want to give some grace and space to allow our fellow humans to find their way? If we don't, then we won't give ourselves grace and space to find our way, either.
"Blue" was my favorite album of all times. I played it over and over.
In the 1980s, I pretended to be Joni when I would sit out on the back steps at night, learning to play guitar, after my kids were asleep. This is the first I've ever heard that "Little Green" was about giving up her child for her career.
At the current time there is no doubt. Dylan can no longer sing. But in his prime, Dylan was a great singer. He didn't have a great voice, but he knew how to sing. If you doubt that, you are not and never have been a Dylan fan.
I have never been a huge Bruce fan. His shtick on stage was: "Yup, look at me. I'm a rock star. Watch me rock hard with my guitar."
In 1974 or 5, I took a bus ride from VaTech to NoVa. As we stopped at every small town, it took forever. There was a kid from Vandy who had a cassette player and he only had one cassette, a bob Dylan tape. He played that over and over and there were no headphones in those days so we all got to have our ears bleed.
"Let me make the songs of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws." --Andrew Fletcher (1653-1716)
Artists, whose talents and sense of reality, have always generally differed from those of conservatives, who plod along with quaint ideas about duty, tradition, and effort. Many of the latter, like me, do nevertheless appreciate how art brightens our lives and we overlook the glaring contempt the artists have for our reliable quotidian existence. Perhaps we may be permitted a bit of resentment when the liberal influence of the art itself seems insufficient to the artists who take the further step of using their celebrity as a bully pulpit to un-artfully pound us with opinions that insult our own.
They are entertainers, they are not paid to be great thinkers, philosophers or statesmen. I have no regard for their opinions. Why give them the power of caring what they think.
No. Because that generation- David Crosby, Roger Daltry, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, James Taylor, the Stones, are going stop when they feel like stopping, not when someone else says they should. Crosby was texting the day he died. About how it felt to die.
Perhaps when Ms. Mitchell (also Neil Young) removed her catalog from Spotify recently in protest of Joe Rogan's humongous contract, and no one gave one-tenth of nano-fuck that she did so, this is another bid for relevance.
Joni is one of the all time greats, to say the least. She has always been up there in the stratosphere, for me, with the likes of Dylan and Stevie Wonder. She is America's first Lady of lyricism (by way of Canada of course), and no she most certainly doesn't need the belated recognition, but it's nice to see her receiving it anyway.
Unlike some commenters here I try to separate politics from artistic ventures. While the likes of Neil Young and Joni Mitchell may have an overinflated sense of self, their music stands up against any other musicians and song writers. I think, like J.K. Rowling, Mitchell cries all the way to the bank when she cashes her royalty checks. I don't turn to her Blue album for a dose of political commentary. I listen to her albums because they are all so unique in their musicality. There really isn't anyone in the music realm quite like her.
I for sure will look up the Tracy & Luke duet. Joni's music has never really done it for me. From this genre, give me Nick Drake all day long though (especially over coffee on a lazy Sunday morning)
Being overlooked by this bunch isn't going to faze the woman who wrote, "If you want me I'll be in the bar." They're strictly commercial, something Joni never was.
God, I love that line! So much meaning packed into nine words. I say it to my husband whenever he gets all, "I'm as constant as the Northern Star." Mhmm. Lovely. Where's that at? If you want me I'll be in the bar.
When Joni came on stage at Newport Folk last summer people were openly weeping. As the wall of fog rolled in over the water, it felt like we were collectively transported to a private hall somewhere far away. She sang with Brandi Carlisle and others in “Joni Jams.” Her story and her recovery are both amazing. While her music was released before my time, we know enough to recognize one of the greats.
Thank you, Ryan, for that scene from the Newport festival. "... people were openly weeping." I'm going to send that to the friend who introduced me to Joni.
Thank you for sharing that. Joni stopped touring over 40 years ago, allegedly because her heavy cigarette smoking had damaged her vocal chords. So as someone who discovered her music in the Eighties, I never got the chance to see her except on old concert clips.
When an article starts with the complaint that an artist has been ignored, but then proceeds to list all the awards the artist has won (just not the ones the author thinks they should have), I cannot take the author seriously.
Awards are inherently unfair. This doesn't just happen in the music industry; it also happens in the film industry and the book industry. The Newbery Medal is a prime example: there have been numerous occasions when the medal has gone to a lesser book by an author whose previous book was really the one that deserved the medal.
But the author's complaints didn't end there--he stabbed gleefully at the tastes of readers.
There aren't many articles in TFP that I wish had a downvote button, but this is one.
Can't go back and see your comment to read again, but I'll take your word for it. Sorry for the misunderstanding even as I'm glad you didn't mean what I thought you meant. :)
I'm pretty sure I've heard and liked some music of hers at some time or other, but there aren't a whole lot of artists that I consider myself a particular fan of.
As RBM noted, my comments were entirely about Eli Lake, not about Joni Mitchell.
I never cared for her, and STILL don't! But that is just me. Genius? Maybe, but memorable? Only to middle-aged and senior critics. After she passes from this life she will be, largely, forgotten. So why NOT trot her out onstage, with her tobacco ravaged voice, for one last hurrah?
I skew young on this forum I think, so I’m just chiming in, I am under 40, and my husband and I have both been listening to her since our teens. He got to see her in 2000 before she stopped performing. We will be at Hollywood Bowl this autumn. You and all the other old men can make fun of her if you want, but you’re inaccurate about her intergenerational fan base.
GOOD GRIEF, NO!! As heavy metal as I get is early Led Zeppelin, whom I've seen in concert twice. CSN, without Young, whom I detest, was good in their time. But I am a child of the 60's and 70's, so you can understand. I later developed an interest in Classical, and Country, and more lately, Bluegrass. Not much of today's popular music interests me. I MAY be missing some good stuff, but who really cares?
Glad to hear it. But Joni's music will last as long as CSY or Led Zeppelin or even the Beatles. I can't name another woman with her writing and singing ability.
Jon, there are plenty of women on the same singer-songwriter level as Joni. I can think of Patti Smith, Lucinda Williams, Nina Simone, Loretta Lynn, Billie Holiday, Amy Winehouse, Dolores O'Riordan and even Dolly Parton. Led Zeppelin recorded the great song 'When the Levee Breaks'. This was originally written and sung by Memphis Minnie (1929)
Or who was a personal epoch to so many people. The number of artists - and regular folks - who name her as an inspiration might be greater than for any other musician. You can't not hear her in the works of so many young artists. She'll definitely live on.
I recommend Joanna Newsom for contemporary comparison if you want to hear how Joni really informed the voice of Millennial artists. Specifically start with Have One On Me most notable “ladies of the canyon” influence. Joanna is an incomparable performer, lyricist and vocalist as well as pianist and harpist. Also can be polarizing like Joni.
If you like country and bluegrass, check out Gillian Welch who subverts the form ever so slightly and is always interesting. I was never a big country fan of the pickup trucks and drinking lyrics variety, but there are some country artists I find amazing: Chris Stapleton, Emmylou Harris and Gretchen Peters (whose lyrics more than make up for some vocal limitations).
I am familiar with Gillian, and like most of what Stapleton does. Modern country music has devolved into hip-hop with a drawl. Not much on melody but big on rhymical and rapidly sung or spoken lyrics.
She wrote that silly "Woodstock" song but skipped the actual event because it wasn't a good career move. But I always liked that she's an unapologetic tobacco user.
You, sir, are putting your views onto the hundreds of millions who love Joni Mitchell and will carry her music and memories into the future. The scope of her fame and support is an empirical objective fact. Your subjective point of view is but a single grain of sand on a beach otherwise filled with love your heart will never know.
I work with twenty and thirty-somethings and NONE of them know of Joni Mitchel, nor can they name one of her songs. Could it be that you ALSO are just opining? Hundreds of millions? I think you are overstating it by a bit.
I wish, but unfortunately her contribution to, and partial invention of, the “woman crying about herself” genre will live on. See Olivia Rodrigo for the latest model trotted out.
Pssht. Do you know her lyrics? Clearly not. Anyway, is "crying about yourself" (i.e. love songs) worse than bragging about your exploits, your cash, or your patriotism?
I take great offense in hating on Olivia Newton John! I honestly love that song and honestly had the biggest crush on her a 9 year old boy could have. If you come to my house I'll sing it for you.
Joni's music is beautiful, I fell in love with it when I was 17 and never stopped listening until she pulled it from Spotify a few years ago. Spotify is how I listen to music so I haven't been able to listen to her since. It's sad that the free thinkers and resisters of the authority/establishment from my parents' era have now become the enforcers of government propaganda. Also, she and Neil are essentially allowing Joe Rogan to control their music distribution, since pulling it from Spotify in protest of him/of free speech so... how freewheeling is that? :/
Well said Eli. However, awards for art have always been silly. Art is subjective and one person’s genius is garbage to someone else.
I imagine for a true musician, a Grammy nod is an insult. The best of the edgy, cool and rebellious flip the Grammies the bird and write more great music.
Some commenters are trying to turn this political. From a purely artistic point of view, I long ago realized if I stopped listening to music from artists more liberal than I, I'd be missing out on some of the greatest music ever recorded. Ted Nugent and Kid Rock can only take you so far...
Amen. I'm a conservative. It's a little discouraging when I find out how nutty my favorite artists are. But truly great artists should not be expected to know anything other than their art. I think that great artists are actually a little possessed. I would prefer they just "shut up and sing"
I like Ted Nugent. Can't stand his music. I've enjoyed some Kid Rock. But neither are as talented as Joni, or Dylan or Pete Townshend
And don't we want to give some grace and space to allow our fellow humans to find their way? If we don't, then we won't give ourselves grace and space to find our way, either.
"Blue" was my favorite album of all times. I played it over and over.
In the 1980s, I pretended to be Joni when I would sit out on the back steps at night, learning to play guitar, after my kids were asleep. This is the first I've ever heard that "Little Green" was about giving up her child for her career.
Well said Anne,
The Blue album is a masterpiece. The depth and beauty of her ability to write just amazes me.
I remember that time you told me
You said, "Love is touching souls"
Surely you touched mine
'Cause part of you pours out of me
In these lines from time to time
...or Bruce (who unlike Dylan, can actually sing). Dylan should get a new category: mumbled poetry.
At the current time there is no doubt. Dylan can no longer sing. But in his prime, Dylan was a great singer. He didn't have a great voice, but he knew how to sing. If you doubt that, you are not and never have been a Dylan fan.
I have never been a huge Bruce fan. His shtick on stage was: "Yup, look at me. I'm a rock star. Watch me rock hard with my guitar."
He was never a great singer. He wasn’t even good.
In 1974 or 5, I took a bus ride from VaTech to NoVa. As we stopped at every small town, it took forever. There was a kid from Vandy who had a cassette player and he only had one cassette, a bob Dylan tape. He played that over and over and there were no headphones in those days so we all got to have our ears bleed.
Dylan couldn’t sing a lick.
OR one of my favorites
Coconut Grove
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecLmSaBvqM0
Composer, Lyricist: John Sebastian
Composer, Lyricist: Zal Yanovsky
1972
I gotta listen to this. Lovin Spoonful wrote some great songs
"Let me make the songs of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws." --Andrew Fletcher (1653-1716)
Artists, whose talents and sense of reality, have always generally differed from those of conservatives, who plod along with quaint ideas about duty, tradition, and effort. Many of the latter, like me, do nevertheless appreciate how art brightens our lives and we overlook the glaring contempt the artists have for our reliable quotidian existence. Perhaps we may be permitted a bit of resentment when the liberal influence of the art itself seems insufficient to the artists who take the further step of using their celebrity as a bully pulpit to un-artfully pound us with opinions that insult our own.
You cannot enjoy any form of art, if you make it political. Just enjoy whatever the art an bloke out all the nonsense.
But if their crass commercial/quasi political positions make you want to puke, how do you enjoy hat?
They are entertainers, they are not paid to be great thinkers, philosophers or statesmen. I have no regard for their opinions. Why give them the power of caring what they think.
The first lady of folk has never won an important award from the Recording Academy. So why is she even turning up for the show?
BECAUSE SHE IS A FUCKING DEMOCRAT...
She has shown loyalty to the message and only supports the "right" things. That's why.
How fucking obtuse can you be?
No. Because that generation- David Crosby, Roger Daltry, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, James Taylor, the Stones, are going stop when they feel like stopping, not when someone else says they should. Crosby was texting the day he died. About how it felt to die.
Thank you, Susan!
Love your handle!
There’s a smart observation—not.
Are you Kevin Durant? in disguise?
C'mon, they're ALL Democrats. You have to go to the country music awards to find any Republicans.
...get a life. It’s not all - or even mostly - about politics or your obsessions.
LoL
Perhaps when Ms. Mitchell (also Neil Young) removed her catalog from Spotify recently in protest of Joe Rogan's humongous contract, and no one gave one-tenth of nano-fuck that she did so, this is another bid for relevance.
Joni is one of the all time greats, to say the least. She has always been up there in the stratosphere, for me, with the likes of Dylan and Stevie Wonder. She is America's first Lady of lyricism (by way of Canada of course), and no she most certainly doesn't need the belated recognition, but it's nice to see her receiving it anyway.
Unlike some commenters here I try to separate politics from artistic ventures. While the likes of Neil Young and Joni Mitchell may have an overinflated sense of self, their music stands up against any other musicians and song writers. I think, like J.K. Rowling, Mitchell cries all the way to the bank when she cashes her royalty checks. I don't turn to her Blue album for a dose of political commentary. I listen to her albums because they are all so unique in their musicality. There really isn't anyone in the music realm quite like her.
…puke…
I have never watched or cared about the Grammys, and I loved the Simpson bit.
But I do want to see Tracy Chapman and Luke Combs sing 'Fast Car" together!
And, as a Southerner, I am so glad Eli italicized the one word, Southern, in his fake-horrified description of Luke.
Good one, Ann. That's exactly how I felt when I saw that and I'm not even from the South. I fact, I found the his piece to be somewhat pompous.
I for sure will look up the Tracy & Luke duet. Joni's music has never really done it for me. From this genre, give me Nick Drake all day long though (especially over coffee on a lazy Sunday morning)
I’m sorry but I can’t find mention of what you are referring to…as a fellow Southerner I am interested in the comment!
Hey, Betsy. What I was referring to is in the 4th paragraph of Oliver Wiseman's cover story "Ladies' Night at the Grammys."
Being overlooked by this bunch isn't going to faze the woman who wrote, "If you want me I'll be in the bar." They're strictly commercial, something Joni never was.
God, I love that line! So much meaning packed into nine words. I say it to my husband whenever he gets all, "I'm as constant as the Northern Star." Mhmm. Lovely. Where's that at? If you want me I'll be in the bar.
But is now apparently. For pharma.
When Joni came on stage at Newport Folk last summer people were openly weeping. As the wall of fog rolled in over the water, it felt like we were collectively transported to a private hall somewhere far away. She sang with Brandi Carlisle and others in “Joni Jams.” Her story and her recovery are both amazing. While her music was released before my time, we know enough to recognize one of the greats.
Thank you, Ryan, for that scene from the Newport festival. "... people were openly weeping." I'm going to send that to the friend who introduced me to Joni.
Thank you for sharing that. Joni stopped touring over 40 years ago, allegedly because her heavy cigarette smoking had damaged her vocal chords. So as someone who discovered her music in the Eighties, I never got the chance to see her except on old concert clips.
Love the fog. Magic. My husband and I already made a “weep plan” for Hollywood Bowl.
Great essay! For us lifelong Joni fans, you nailed it. She’s always been too cool to care about awards!
When an article starts with the complaint that an artist has been ignored, but then proceeds to list all the awards the artist has won (just not the ones the author thinks they should have), I cannot take the author seriously.
Awards are inherently unfair. This doesn't just happen in the music industry; it also happens in the film industry and the book industry. The Newbery Medal is a prime example: there have been numerous occasions when the medal has gone to a lesser book by an author whose previous book was really the one that deserved the medal.
But the author's complaints didn't end there--he stabbed gleefully at the tastes of readers.
There aren't many articles in TFP that I wish had a downvote button, but this is one.
Not a Joni fan, I take it.
It was a comment about the author, not the artist. Read it again.
Yes, I’m a Joni fan but Eli Lake is a tad pretentious.
Can't go back and see your comment to read again, but I'll take your word for it. Sorry for the misunderstanding even as I'm glad you didn't mean what I thought you meant. :)
Well, Miss W, it wasnotme to whom you replied. It was Celia M. She did not mention Joni, just the author of the article.
Well, whoopsie twice
Speaking as a huge Joni Mitchell fan I think Celia nailed this comment and is 100% correct.
I'm pretty sure I've heard and liked some music of hers at some time or other, but there aren't a whole lot of artists that I consider myself a particular fan of.
As RBM noted, my comments were entirely about Eli Lake, not about Joni Mitchell.
I never cared for her, and STILL don't! But that is just me. Genius? Maybe, but memorable? Only to middle-aged and senior critics. After she passes from this life she will be, largely, forgotten. So why NOT trot her out onstage, with her tobacco ravaged voice, for one last hurrah?
I skew young on this forum I think, so I’m just chiming in, I am under 40, and my husband and I have both been listening to her since our teens. He got to see her in 2000 before she stopped performing. We will be at Hollywood Bowl this autumn. You and all the other old men can make fun of her if you want, but you’re inaccurate about her intergenerational fan base.
Perhaps you are a unicorn in this respect?
We think you are, Bob.
I'm afraid to ask, but name your favorite artist. VanHalen maybe?
GOOD GRIEF, NO!! As heavy metal as I get is early Led Zeppelin, whom I've seen in concert twice. CSN, without Young, whom I detest, was good in their time. But I am a child of the 60's and 70's, so you can understand. I later developed an interest in Classical, and Country, and more lately, Bluegrass. Not much of today's popular music interests me. I MAY be missing some good stuff, but who really cares?
Glad to hear it. But Joni's music will last as long as CSY or Led Zeppelin or even the Beatles. I can't name another woman with her writing and singing ability.
Jon, there are plenty of women on the same singer-songwriter level as Joni. I can think of Patti Smith, Lucinda Williams, Nina Simone, Loretta Lynn, Billie Holiday, Amy Winehouse, Dolores O'Riordan and even Dolly Parton. Led Zeppelin recorded the great song 'When the Levee Breaks'. This was originally written and sung by Memphis Minnie (1929)
Don't care for Patti Smith
Yeah, Patti is on the punk side and an acquired taste (kinda like Joni for some)
Or who was a personal epoch to so many people. The number of artists - and regular folks - who name her as an inspiration might be greater than for any other musician. You can't not hear her in the works of so many young artists. She'll definitely live on.
I recommend Joanna Newsom for contemporary comparison if you want to hear how Joni really informed the voice of Millennial artists. Specifically start with Have One On Me most notable “ladies of the canyon” influence. Joanna is an incomparable performer, lyricist and vocalist as well as pianist and harpist. Also can be polarizing like Joni.
If you like country and bluegrass, check out Gillian Welch who subverts the form ever so slightly and is always interesting. I was never a big country fan of the pickup trucks and drinking lyrics variety, but there are some country artists I find amazing: Chris Stapleton, Emmylou Harris and Gretchen Peters (whose lyrics more than make up for some vocal limitations).
I am familiar with Gillian, and like most of what Stapleton does. Modern country music has devolved into hip-hop with a drawl. Not much on melody but big on rhymical and rapidly sung or spoken lyrics.
The Marcus King Band.
Marcus' dad is a blues artist in his own right. But I do love MKB.
His granddaddy before him. Maybe further back as well.
She wrote that silly "Woodstock" song but skipped the actual event because it wasn't a good career move. But I always liked that she's an unapologetic tobacco user.
The only thing of her's that I really liked was her duet with James Taylor of "The Circle Game". Very evocative!
You, sir, are putting your views onto the hundreds of millions who love Joni Mitchell and will carry her music and memories into the future. The scope of her fame and support is an empirical objective fact. Your subjective point of view is but a single grain of sand on a beach otherwise filled with love your heart will never know.
I work with twenty and thirty-somethings and NONE of them know of Joni Mitchel, nor can they name one of her songs. Could it be that you ALSO are just opining? Hundreds of millions? I think you are overstating it by a bit.
Their loss. So many do know her. You just don't work with them.
"I wish I had more sense of humor, keeping the sadness at bay
Throwing the lightness on these things, laughing it all away..."
Are Gershwin, Billy Holiday and Etta James "memorable to only the middle-aged and seniors?"
You sound like a clown! (Oops, just looked at the photo. Sorry...)
I wish, but unfortunately her contribution to, and partial invention of, the “woman crying about herself” genre will live on. See Olivia Rodrigo for the latest model trotted out.
Pssht. Do you know her lyrics? Clearly not. Anyway, is "crying about yourself" (i.e. love songs) worse than bragging about your exploits, your cash, or your patriotism?
And here I thought the first lady of folk was Joan Baez,,,oh well, I was so much older then I'm younger than that now
To think of the Beatles ever having been ignored is more than I can take this rainy Saturday morning.
Talk about artists who didn't need recognition from the establishment!
I take great offense in hating on Olivia Newton John! I honestly love that song and honestly had the biggest crush on her a 9 year old boy could have. If you come to my house I'll sing it for you.
Joni's music is beautiful, I fell in love with it when I was 17 and never stopped listening until she pulled it from Spotify a few years ago. Spotify is how I listen to music so I haven't been able to listen to her since. It's sad that the free thinkers and resisters of the authority/establishment from my parents' era have now become the enforcers of government propaganda. Also, she and Neil are essentially allowing Joe Rogan to control their music distribution, since pulling it from Spotify in protest of him/of free speech so... how freewheeling is that? :/
I suggest you buy CD's or LP's. Then no one can "pull" music from you or modify what you hear from the original.
There are so many better options than Spotify. I will never understand how why so many people rely on that garbage app.
Care to share the better choices?