John Prine, that great philosopher. Ahhhh, so good to hear his words again .... God rest his soul; he was a Tootsie Roll. But he's a dead cat just the same.
He wanted that line from Prine on his gravestone. Done. We promised that whoever died first, the other would sit by, smoke a doobie, and then piss on the other's grave. I still owe him. Better get cracking.
Prine and Townes Van Zandt are two of my favorite American artists. When I hear Highwaymen for some reason I also always want to listen to Pancho & Lefty. So many have covered this iconic tune but I like EmmyLou’s version the best.
Funny you say that. I started associating the two songs also; I think it's from Willie Nelson, who recorded both of them. I like his version of Pancho with Merle Haggard better than anybody's, mostly because he looks like he could BE Pancho, I guess. Ashley also does Highwayman on Larry's Country Diner with Carl Jackson; I think it's better than the version above. I'd never heard of him before, but man, he's good!
They also do Gentle on My Mind, one of my favorites of her father's from a Very Long Time Ago. I saw the writer, John Hartford, in a packed high school auditorium in the early 'eighties. What a showman he was! Good memories.
I read an interview with Jimmy Webb, author of Highwayman. He said he was in (London?) and had a nightmare about being a highwayman and being chased by the sheriff and posse, who planned to hang him. He said it was so real that he woke up in a sweat and couldn't get back to sleep. A couple of hours later, Highwayman was complete.
The simplicity of what matters in life gets lost in the chaos we've created in life. The Harvard Study on Adult Development--the definitive long-range study--tells us scientifically what we already know in our hearts: that happiness in life comes from good relationships. With ourselves, with family and friends, with our co-workers and in the community--in the local as Paul says. We are not just spiritually or mentally wired for relationship: You are physically wired for relationship.
We know most of this deep down. We thrive in relationship. We die in loneliness. We feel deep fulfillment spending time with those we love; accomplishing some goal we set for ourself (relationship w/self); and relationship with the Transcendent via Beauty in nature, art, and religion.
Relationship permeates the very nature of Creation/the Universe. The laws of nature themselves are mathematical descriptions of... wait for it... relationships.
The chase for money or stuff or more technology or postmodern subjectivity or the tech-world of AI takes us out of the very relationships with ourselves and others that fulfill us. They isolate us. Make us lonely. And slowly kill us mentally, spiritually, and physically.
Part of what I think Mr. Kingsnorth is speaking about when he says, "It doesn’t remove the struggles from your life, but it means that they’re in the bigger context of you always being held and watched by something much bigger that’s happening. So yeah, Easter is a pretty wonderful time."
... is that we deepen in our understanding of what God has revealed about Himself. As we live life "in Christ," we encounter more and more reflections that others have had. Handel's Messiah is a big one for me, and a hymn known as "And can it be." Here's the first stanza. Look it up for the rest.
Heart-felt kudos to Bari for a gracious and fair presentation of an on-going conversion to a religion that has often been anything but gracious to those of her heritage!
I have been reading Paul Kingsnorth’s Substack for the past year - and this Honestly interview was really wonderful! Bari and The Free Press are also wonderful - I start most every day reading TFP right after I read my Bible (which puts my world into perspective). As a lifelong conservative and Christian, TFP demonstrates for me that we all can share our thoughts to the benefit of our communities if we are committed to speaking respectfully to our neighbors… And TFP is a clear example of how this honest, open minded sharing of perspectives, observations, and experiences SHOULD work in journalism!
I think that what Paul is, is what I call a "crunchy" (I'm one, too). So, I think, was J.R.R. Tolkien. It's less about the outward trappings of "hippie-dom" and more about the recognition that nature is a vital thing, a force that we meddle too much with at our peril, because it is so much more complex than science yet fully comprehends.
Great article. I also became a Christian through a process of intellectual pursuit and God chasing me down. However, I'm very much a part of the environmental community. I think it's an opportunity to nurture the world and connect with people at the same time. People within this environmental movement are concerned about nature, animals, bees, butterflies, and plants. They want the world to be a beautiful place. How do we get there? How do we prevent destruction and extinction? These are important questions and are worthy of discussion.
I believe that there are a handful of folks like yourself in the environmental community who truly care about the nature of the earth God has entrusted us with. The problem is you have allowed yourselves to be represented by greedy power hungry elites who have little regard for the birds, the bees and the trees. They have high-jacked the sincerity of your mission to gain political power and access to public tax money.
For example, the next time you drive by what was once a beautiful wheat field, now densely planted with ugly metal solar panels remind yourself that this is multiplied thousands times all over the country. What will nature’s return be when their rust and rot leach into the once rich soils used for growing food? There will be no labor profit to remove them so they will sit there forever making the land unusable. Historical relics of fools who thought they could play God and control the climate.
The loudest people who represent the environmental green energy community only seem to care about immediate gain. That makes critical thinking people suspicious. Loyal green followers have faith in people who want to regulate every inch of owned land and every move a landowner wants to make upon it. These are their freedom loving friends, neighbors and community business owners. This sows discord and tension.
Governmental leaders are lobbied by businesses posing as scientific enterprises with extended titles so impressive they are purposefully reduced to acronyms that we are expected not to question. They send out activists to scream and holler at us that the world will end if we don’t relent to their threats. The movement is one mad mess of hysteria. Sane people don’t respond to lunatics, hypocrites and bullies. Few listen anymore, but we are paying attention to where the tax money is going. We will not be robbed by scammers nor controlled by government thugs.
We must pray that God will expose the charlatans who have infiltrated your mission. Also, that he will give courage to people like you (who truly care about his earth) to discern and weed them out. Like all things through God, the truth will prevail. Only then will we know the true state of the earth and the limits humans are created with to sustain it. Only then can there be environmental unity.
Thank you for responding. You may be right about the "greedy power hungry elites". But that has not been my experience. I work all day with people (the silent majority) who do care about the birds and the bees. They are trying to solve complex problems and educate others who are resistant to scientific facts. They support innovation in the clean energy sector and advocate for distributed solar panels, not farms. They even like nuclear. In "Citizens' Climate Lobby" we work together as Democrats and Republicans. We have experts like Katherine Heyhoe who is both an evangelical and a scientist. The hysteria of which you speak is possibly due to the idea of "tipping points", recorded extinction events, and the Keeling Curve data showing a rapidly warming planet. There are good people in the environmental community working hard on complex problems. But as every Christian knows, humans can screw up anything, even Paradise.
If we interpret scripture rightly (subjective, I know) Jesus isn't taking us anywhere else than right here, on this terrestrial ball he made for us. To steward that responsibility, wisely and prudently, is our expectation. It boggles the mind to think we would abuse, for greed or selfishness, this thing He gave us. As the saying goes, "Jesus is coming back. We better neaten up the house."
Thank you, David. As Jordan Peterson says, "clean your room". It is so important to take responsibility for your immediate environment. How can we stop pollution, stop extinctions, and make better choices for a healthy planet? We need to be responsible as individuals, but then, take advantage of our representative government to advocate for wise environmental policies on a national and global level. If we love our neighbors, we need to care about their environment as well.
I'll leave this buried somewhere at the bottom. I'll just say I get this guy. Only an idiot would think that destroying nature, or removing our lives from it, is healthy. If you are not seeing trees often, or spending time in nature, something in you either fails to develop--if you are a kid--or withers, as you age.
Back in the 80's when I was young and more naive, I remember the great passions. They were kind of an echo of the 60's, but still sincere.
But somewhere along the way the counter-culture became the Man and seemingly didn't even notice. If you join the Left today you are joining a For-Profit enterprise that may as well be incorporated. The people making the money are happy to pull strings to push people first this way, then that way, but not a damn thing any of these kids are taught to chant, or to fight for or against, is organic. There is always an agenda, and that agenda is always improving the lives of a very, very few through more power and money, and that improvement is usually at the expense of the very people, or cause in the case of the environment, that was supposedly what it was all about.
Don't any of you be afraid to be different. That 's the only way to live anything even approaching an interesting life, and it's also the only to have a hope in hell of maintaining some form of personal integrity.
Kingsnorth reminds me a bit of the now-sober actors and rockers who prattle on to a fawning interviewer who lionizes their "courage" in finally getting clean (with the help of legions of highly paid caregivers), Altogether ignoring the carnage left in their wake in the ruined lives of their acolytes who swallowed wholesale what they once preached about the virtues of drugs and excess.
Maybe - but is it not better to be on a better path?
The very essence of Christianity is that EVERYONE leaves carnage in their wake.
Hence the need for a savior, a redeemer, one to provide atonement for our carnage. Or - At-one-ment —- a path back to our Creator God.
The sacrifice of Jesus provides grace for all of man’s sins - past, present, future.
We cannot adequately make amends for our “past carnage”.
But because of the grace God shows us through Christ, we seek to treat all in our lives with grace and compassion.
It’s remarkably simple - but many cannot accept the simplicity of “grace.”
The mark of Christianity is grace. Humility. Sacrifice. An earnestness to do right by others, as God has shown us grace through the sacrifice of his son.
Ted, one of my favorite services of the year is Good Friday; service of the Nails. Last night we meditated on the 7 statements of Jesus as he was being crucified. It blows my mind that Jesus could forgive while being slowly killed.
To God: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
FORGIVENESS
To the ‘good thief’ who came to believe in that moment: “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
SALVATION
To Mary, his mother: “Woman, behold your son”... and to John: “Behold your mother.”
FAMILY
To God, his Father: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
SILENT SUFFERING
To all: “I thirst.”
HUMANITY
To the world: “It is finished.”
REDEMPTION
To God: “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit.”
TRUST
These statements of Jesus at Golgatha encapsulate Christianity.
It always pisses me off when activist block traffic, entrance ways or throw soup on priceless paintings or glues their hand to a wall or floor. What gives the right to impede my right of way.
Angry, little, self righteous, spoiled, shithead brats is all they are. Paul Kingsnorth chained himself to a bridge. If it were up to me, I'd leave them glued or chained up for a couple of days. They did that in a Volkswagen factory floor. They left them glued there for a half day and the assholes who glued themselves to the floor were angry because Volkswagen didn't unglue them. My answer to that would be, "You glued yourselves to the floor so I thought you wanted to stay glued. Otherwise, why would you do it?"
A few months ago the heir to the J. Paul Getty fortune was a soup thrower and gluer. She grew up in the lap of luxury, never had to look for a job or wondered where her next meal was coming from.
What makes them the arbiters of truth and of right and wrong?
Well I say it is never too late to find God. And God and His Church rejoice with every soul who finds their way back Home, no matter how far they may have strayed. God is calling to people in the darkest of places, even on the cell blocks of death row. Some of the most powerful voices in Christianity were former atheists. If you have studied the Gospels you will know that Jesus specifically sought out the sinner. The Apostle Paul, was formerly ‘Saul’ the ‘Pharisee of Pharisees’ who persecuted, killed and brought carnage to early Christians for ~4 to 7 years post-crucifixion, before God transformed him into a beautiful instrument of His purpose.
Not a jerk. I understand your frustrations. But try to let it go for one day. If you celebrate, then rejoice! Remember at the end of the day, God is bigger than all the stuff going on right now. If you don't and aren't religious, it's still Sunday. Forget for a moment all the woke idiots toiling over stupid shit pursuing the wrong things, and enjoy your day off doing something you love. Cheers!
This transcribed peek sounds so fascinating and I look forward to listening!
“I was looking for turned out to be God, actually. Or maybe he was looking for me, which is more likely. I didn’t know, but there was always a void and it turned out to be God-shaped.”
That image stood out to me, too—that God has been seeking us. I highly recommend the film Wit, starring Emma Thompson, which culminates in a wonderful illustration of that concept as seen through a children’s tale. John Donne fans should stream that film, as well.
As one who had never heard of Kingsnorth, thoroughly enjoyed the entire conversation this morning. The experience enhanced perhaps by several aspects of his journey that I found myself relating to, including once working for Greenpeace yet today wanting nothing to do with the carbon obsessed climate apoplectic puppets driving the agenda and narrative of their globalist political and economic pay masters. Similar with evolution in the spiritual realm, the quest, in response to the ‘God void’, leading ultimately to a coming-home.
Even if I couldn’t agree entirely with his views on capitalism or the suggested ‘Distributionism’ as feasible alternative, certainly very glad to have listened in and look forward to perusing some of his other works.
Thank you Paul for giving a voice to us nature lovers that can’t wrap our heads around the lack of rational thinking around green energy. Protecting wild places is what saves species, including us.
Everything that he found in Christianity, I looked for, for 19 yrs. and didn't find. I figured that was enough time to be able to believe. but the Church people wanted me to believe everything from Genesis to Revalation and, somehow, the 3 children in the fiery funance, who were unburnt, couldn't pass the credibility test. I don't have a problem with God, but the church isn't for me. I'm glad he found what he needed and can afford to live the life that he and his family want.
Herr - I also have talked with many dogmatic Christians (many of whom think I'm a heretic in some way or another). But thankfully I have found a few Christian friends who can hold conversation, we can reason together, and that has made all the difference. May God bless you on your journey, and may you find some of what you are looking for.
Thank you. I'm no longer looking. I don't think in terms of what someone has labeled themselves. If we can have a conversation, that is enough. My friends run the gamut from Jewish to Christian, to Muslim, to Buddhist to nothingist and their religion, or lack thereof, never comes up in conversation, unless it's to make a point or fill in a picture.
Replying to both you and Marty. Right on. All of us must find our own way and we do so by first knowing and then finding ourselves. And that starts with introspection a trait that from my experience and conversations very few people these days do much anymore ( maybe people never did but introspection and social media are not very compatible in my view). I cherish many things in life generally and in my life specifically and one is has having dislogue with others especially with different belief systems and values. These conversations in some cases reinforce my own beliefs and values and in other cases have led me to modify or even reject other views or beliefs ( and vice versa). Unfortunately I find it harder these days to have many such dialogues because I find other people locked into their "position" and uninterested in even testing the foundations therefor. I appreciated this discussion with Bari because Paul shows that we are capable of greater self awareness provided we approach ourselves and various matters looking to learn and expand our knowledge base rather than lecture others.
Yes, lecturing soon becomes hectoring. In other cultures it can be even harder to find people who aren't "locked into their "position." Nevertheless, as Victor Frankel said, Man searches for meaning.
I'll bite. If there is no meaning, then why should I do that? Why not just run people over and take whatever I want however I want? (Serious philosophical question).
Herr, I’m sorry you are no longer looking. You are still being sought, however. Maybe give the Bible another chance without the trappings of human egos?
I enjoy the Bible Project, which has nice short videos of each Book of the Bible and how they all intersect. Featured video now connects Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount to the deep wisdom of the Torah:
I'm not looking because there's nothing to look for. Everything is right in front of us. The Bible IS the trappings of the human ego. No human ego, no human. No one is going to be caught up in the wheel of Ezekiel, in person or allegorically. I prefer to read the Bible rather than watch a video about the Bible. There is no one to be sought and no seeker. Nothing is hidden, we need only to open our eyes, physically and metaphorically.
If you're inclined, have a look at the poems of the Sufi poet Hafiz, translated by Daniel Ladinsky. The Sufis figuered it out.
Yes, I’m familiar w/ Sufism a liberal reform movement of Islam. Sufi’s believe God is the object and humans the mirror's. They also have high regard for Jesus, as a prophet, healer, raiser of the dead. They do however (along w/ all other sects of Islam) reject the Cross/Crucifixion. I would suggest our collective need is to humble ourselves before God, and not cling to other idols to replace Him. Idols to replace God is the story of mankind. We always come up short. Nietzsche went so far as to claim ‘God is Dead’ (and we have killed him). It’s also noteworthy that Nietzsche’s last words at his deathbed were ‘Mother I am dumb’
I wasn't refering to the reform movement, but to Hafiz and his vision of God, not as object but as creator and center of our lives. The Sufi scholars and the poets have two different visions of God.
I'm Jewish, I don't know if I'm like you. I've never known what Jewish is. My mother was Jewish, so, according to tradition I'm Jewish. I wasn't raised Jewish, or anything, and my only connection to the religion is through reading the old testament.
I use my word "Sava" to refer to Creation, this allows all to fill in the name they use. Sava talks to us in different ways as all have different gifts and experiences. I despise those who hector when it comes to belief and Creation. Listen and you will hear Sava talking to you.
Herr F, if you don't mind me asking, what had you been looking for, for 19 years? I know you said you didn't find it. But I'm curious to know what you were you looking to find?
Herr, did you ever notice the Jews founded Christianity in order to keep Judaism going? I don't know if they meant to, but the evidence is that's what happened, so far. I support the values of both -- that's what got America here. If I had had free will, I would have been born Jewish, in a family that practiced a fairly orthodox Judaism. And, like the word "Israel" means, I would have argued with G-d all the way.
Even poor Jews got ahold of a piano for their kids. Too late to learn? At 86, arthritis in the wrists and fingers, one hand with alcoholic Dupuytren's contracture (look it up), doubtful learning piano. I used to play guitar, I know. Anyway, I watch "Fidler on the Roof" every time it's on.
Where did those poor Jews put the piano. My poor Jewish family lived in a one bedroom apt, 3 adults and 1 child. My mother earned $32 a week. You don't know what you don't know. 86 isn't too late to learn, having those medical problems makes it impossible to learn. Have you tried the harmonica or are you no longer interested in playing music?
To quote someone infamous; I did nothing wrong. I traded on my own merits and that was sufficient to sustain a carreer for 60 yrs. I didn't open the pack of "race" cards.
That's not the advantages I was referring to. Its seems you took it as the superficial advantages (connections, being part of a group etc)... I was ofcourse referring to the deeper more intrinsic qualities of being a jew, far from the idea of playing any race card for personal gain
Thank you for clarifying that. I was not brought up in the Jewish tradition, or, for that matter, any tradition, and have no idea of what "the deeper more intrinsic qualities of being a Jew" are.
As John Prine said so eloquently,
"Blow up your TV
Throw away your paper
Go to the country
Build you a home
Plant a little garden
Eat a lot of peaches
Try an' find Jesus on your own"
John Prine, that great philosopher. Ahhhh, so good to hear his words again .... God rest his soul; he was a Tootsie Roll. But he's a dead cat just the same.
The tombstone of my friend, John.
https://www.loc.gov/resource/afc1999008.afc1999008_crf_mhc06412/?r=0.031,0.039,0.967,0.521,0
He wanted that line from Prine on his gravestone. Done. We promised that whoever died first, the other would sit by, smoke a doobie, and then piss on the other's grave. I still owe him. Better get cracking.
LOVE IT. my fave in my cemetery where I walk the dogs says "Boots Forni"
date and date then "Be Right Back"
Maybe you should listen to "The Highwayman" by Glen Campbell's daughter, Ashley. I hope she's right. Let me see if I can find it. Here we go:
https://youtu.be/mtuPwjA-NDE?si=AFKEndojPCqoR8IL
Prine and Townes Van Zandt are two of my favorite American artists. When I hear Highwaymen for some reason I also always want to listen to Pancho & Lefty. So many have covered this iconic tune but I like EmmyLou’s version the best.
https://youtu.be/scX50O2hDkI?si=ErM7UCIIN-bvWP8v
Funny you say that. I started associating the two songs also; I think it's from Willie Nelson, who recorded both of them. I like his version of Pancho with Merle Haggard better than anybody's, mostly because he looks like he could BE Pancho, I guess. Ashley also does Highwayman on Larry's Country Diner with Carl Jackson; I think it's better than the version above. I'd never heard of him before, but man, he's good!
https://youtu.be/1F-cB2xT7fQ?si=udPvY5-2SVMYcYIf
They also do Gentle on My Mind, one of my favorites of her father's from a Very Long Time Ago. I saw the writer, John Hartford, in a packed high school auditorium in the early 'eighties. What a showman he was! Good memories.
I read an interview with Jimmy Webb, author of Highwayman. He said he was in (London?) and had a nightmare about being a highwayman and being chased by the sheriff and posse, who planned to hang him. He said it was so real that he woke up in a sweat and couldn't get back to sleep. A couple of hours later, Highwayman was complete.
The simplicity of what matters in life gets lost in the chaos we've created in life. The Harvard Study on Adult Development--the definitive long-range study--tells us scientifically what we already know in our hearts: that happiness in life comes from good relationships. With ourselves, with family and friends, with our co-workers and in the community--in the local as Paul says. We are not just spiritually or mentally wired for relationship: You are physically wired for relationship.
We know most of this deep down. We thrive in relationship. We die in loneliness. We feel deep fulfillment spending time with those we love; accomplishing some goal we set for ourself (relationship w/self); and relationship with the Transcendent via Beauty in nature, art, and religion.
Relationship permeates the very nature of Creation/the Universe. The laws of nature themselves are mathematical descriptions of... wait for it... relationships.
The chase for money or stuff or more technology or postmodern subjectivity or the tech-world of AI takes us out of the very relationships with ourselves and others that fulfill us. They isolate us. Make us lonely. And slowly kill us mentally, spiritually, and physically.
Very well said. Thank you for this.
Part of what I think Mr. Kingsnorth is speaking about when he says, "It doesn’t remove the struggles from your life, but it means that they’re in the bigger context of you always being held and watched by something much bigger that’s happening. So yeah, Easter is a pretty wonderful time."
... is that we deepen in our understanding of what God has revealed about Himself. As we live life "in Christ," we encounter more and more reflections that others have had. Handel's Messiah is a big one for me, and a hymn known as "And can it be." Here's the first stanza. Look it up for the rest.
And can it be that I should gain
An int’rest in the Savior’s blood?
Died He for me, who caused His pain?
For me, who Him to death pursued?
Amazing love! how can it be
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
Amazing love! how can it be
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
always loved this one. Thanks for bringing it to mind.
Good ol' Wesley.
Heart-felt kudos to Bari for a gracious and fair presentation of an on-going conversion to a religion that has often been anything but gracious to those of her heritage!
I have been reading Paul Kingsnorth’s Substack for the past year - and this Honestly interview was really wonderful! Bari and The Free Press are also wonderful - I start most every day reading TFP right after I read my Bible (which puts my world into perspective). As a lifelong conservative and Christian, TFP demonstrates for me that we all can share our thoughts to the benefit of our communities if we are committed to speaking respectfully to our neighbors… And TFP is a clear example of how this honest, open minded sharing of perspectives, observations, and experiences SHOULD work in journalism!
I think that what Paul is, is what I call a "crunchy" (I'm one, too). So, I think, was J.R.R. Tolkien. It's less about the outward trappings of "hippie-dom" and more about the recognition that nature is a vital thing, a force that we meddle too much with at our peril, because it is so much more complex than science yet fully comprehends.
Great article. I also became a Christian through a process of intellectual pursuit and God chasing me down. However, I'm very much a part of the environmental community. I think it's an opportunity to nurture the world and connect with people at the same time. People within this environmental movement are concerned about nature, animals, bees, butterflies, and plants. They want the world to be a beautiful place. How do we get there? How do we prevent destruction and extinction? These are important questions and are worthy of discussion.
I believe that there are a handful of folks like yourself in the environmental community who truly care about the nature of the earth God has entrusted us with. The problem is you have allowed yourselves to be represented by greedy power hungry elites who have little regard for the birds, the bees and the trees. They have high-jacked the sincerity of your mission to gain political power and access to public tax money.
For example, the next time you drive by what was once a beautiful wheat field, now densely planted with ugly metal solar panels remind yourself that this is multiplied thousands times all over the country. What will nature’s return be when their rust and rot leach into the once rich soils used for growing food? There will be no labor profit to remove them so they will sit there forever making the land unusable. Historical relics of fools who thought they could play God and control the climate.
The loudest people who represent the environmental green energy community only seem to care about immediate gain. That makes critical thinking people suspicious. Loyal green followers have faith in people who want to regulate every inch of owned land and every move a landowner wants to make upon it. These are their freedom loving friends, neighbors and community business owners. This sows discord and tension.
Governmental leaders are lobbied by businesses posing as scientific enterprises with extended titles so impressive they are purposefully reduced to acronyms that we are expected not to question. They send out activists to scream and holler at us that the world will end if we don’t relent to their threats. The movement is one mad mess of hysteria. Sane people don’t respond to lunatics, hypocrites and bullies. Few listen anymore, but we are paying attention to where the tax money is going. We will not be robbed by scammers nor controlled by government thugs.
We must pray that God will expose the charlatans who have infiltrated your mission. Also, that he will give courage to people like you (who truly care about his earth) to discern and weed them out. Like all things through God, the truth will prevail. Only then will we know the true state of the earth and the limits humans are created with to sustain it. Only then can there be environmental unity.
Thank you for responding. You may be right about the "greedy power hungry elites". But that has not been my experience. I work all day with people (the silent majority) who do care about the birds and the bees. They are trying to solve complex problems and educate others who are resistant to scientific facts. They support innovation in the clean energy sector and advocate for distributed solar panels, not farms. They even like nuclear. In "Citizens' Climate Lobby" we work together as Democrats and Republicans. We have experts like Katherine Heyhoe who is both an evangelical and a scientist. The hysteria of which you speak is possibly due to the idea of "tipping points", recorded extinction events, and the Keeling Curve data showing a rapidly warming planet. There are good people in the environmental community working hard on complex problems. But as every Christian knows, humans can screw up anything, even Paradise.
If we interpret scripture rightly (subjective, I know) Jesus isn't taking us anywhere else than right here, on this terrestrial ball he made for us. To steward that responsibility, wisely and prudently, is our expectation. It boggles the mind to think we would abuse, for greed or selfishness, this thing He gave us. As the saying goes, "Jesus is coming back. We better neaten up the house."
Thank you, David. As Jordan Peterson says, "clean your room". It is so important to take responsibility for your immediate environment. How can we stop pollution, stop extinctions, and make better choices for a healthy planet? We need to be responsible as individuals, but then, take advantage of our representative government to advocate for wise environmental policies on a national and global level. If we love our neighbors, we need to care about their environment as well.
I'll leave this buried somewhere at the bottom. I'll just say I get this guy. Only an idiot would think that destroying nature, or removing our lives from it, is healthy. If you are not seeing trees often, or spending time in nature, something in you either fails to develop--if you are a kid--or withers, as you age.
Back in the 80's when I was young and more naive, I remember the great passions. They were kind of an echo of the 60's, but still sincere.
But somewhere along the way the counter-culture became the Man and seemingly didn't even notice. If you join the Left today you are joining a For-Profit enterprise that may as well be incorporated. The people making the money are happy to pull strings to push people first this way, then that way, but not a damn thing any of these kids are taught to chant, or to fight for or against, is organic. There is always an agenda, and that agenda is always improving the lives of a very, very few through more power and money, and that improvement is usually at the expense of the very people, or cause in the case of the environment, that was supposedly what it was all about.
Don't any of you be afraid to be different. That 's the only way to live anything even approaching an interesting life, and it's also the only to have a hope in hell of maintaining some form of personal integrity.
Kingsnorth reminds me a bit of the now-sober actors and rockers who prattle on to a fawning interviewer who lionizes their "courage" in finally getting clean (with the help of legions of highly paid caregivers), Altogether ignoring the carnage left in their wake in the ruined lives of their acolytes who swallowed wholesale what they once preached about the virtues of drugs and excess.
Maybe - but is it not better to be on a better path?
The very essence of Christianity is that EVERYONE leaves carnage in their wake.
Hence the need for a savior, a redeemer, one to provide atonement for our carnage. Or - At-one-ment —- a path back to our Creator God.
The sacrifice of Jesus provides grace for all of man’s sins - past, present, future.
We cannot adequately make amends for our “past carnage”.
But because of the grace God shows us through Christ, we seek to treat all in our lives with grace and compassion.
It’s remarkably simple - but many cannot accept the simplicity of “grace.”
The mark of Christianity is grace. Humility. Sacrifice. An earnestness to do right by others, as God has shown us grace through the sacrifice of his son.
Ted, one of my favorite services of the year is Good Friday; service of the Nails. Last night we meditated on the 7 statements of Jesus as he was being crucified. It blows my mind that Jesus could forgive while being slowly killed.
To God: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
FORGIVENESS
To the ‘good thief’ who came to believe in that moment: “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
SALVATION
To Mary, his mother: “Woman, behold your son”... and to John: “Behold your mother.”
FAMILY
To God, his Father: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
SILENT SUFFERING
To all: “I thirst.”
HUMANITY
To the world: “It is finished.”
REDEMPTION
To God: “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit.”
TRUST
These statements of Jesus at Golgatha encapsulate Christianity.
Exactly.
It always pisses me off when activist block traffic, entrance ways or throw soup on priceless paintings or glues their hand to a wall or floor. What gives the right to impede my right of way.
Angry, little, self righteous, spoiled, shithead brats is all they are. Paul Kingsnorth chained himself to a bridge. If it were up to me, I'd leave them glued or chained up for a couple of days. They did that in a Volkswagen factory floor. They left them glued there for a half day and the assholes who glued themselves to the floor were angry because Volkswagen didn't unglue them. My answer to that would be, "You glued yourselves to the floor so I thought you wanted to stay glued. Otherwise, why would you do it?"
A few months ago the heir to the J. Paul Getty fortune was a soup thrower and gluer. She grew up in the lap of luxury, never had to look for a job or wondered where her next meal was coming from.
What makes them the arbiters of truth and of right and wrong?
At least she wasn't part of a bank robbery where a mother was killed, as with Patty Hearst and the Simbianese Liberation Army.
Yeah but she's just a big an asshole.
Well I say it is never too late to find God. And God and His Church rejoice with every soul who finds their way back Home, no matter how far they may have strayed. God is calling to people in the darkest of places, even on the cell blocks of death row. Some of the most powerful voices in Christianity were former atheists. If you have studied the Gospels you will know that Jesus specifically sought out the sinner. The Apostle Paul, was formerly ‘Saul’ the ‘Pharisee of Pharisees’ who persecuted, killed and brought carnage to early Christians for ~4 to 7 years post-crucifixion, before God transformed him into a beautiful instrument of His purpose.
A twist: God never gives up finding US. Ever.
Carnage, indeed. If you weren't a man, I'd kiss you right on the mouth.
One of the all time great comments here or anywhere for that matter. Way to pucker up
Bruce, it's Easter. I think you're focusing on the wrong part of his story. The important part here is redemption.
And of course, the prodigal son coming home to God.
You're probably right. Just ignore me when I'm being a jerk.
Not a jerk. I understand your frustrations. But try to let it go for one day. If you celebrate, then rejoice! Remember at the end of the day, God is bigger than all the stuff going on right now. If you don't and aren't religious, it's still Sunday. Forget for a moment all the woke idiots toiling over stupid shit pursuing the wrong things, and enjoy your day off doing something you love. Cheers!
I love his Holy Wells travels each Sunday. They revive a tired American living in a cultural desert
This transcribed peek sounds so fascinating and I look forward to listening!
“I was looking for turned out to be God, actually. Or maybe he was looking for me, which is more likely. I didn’t know, but there was always a void and it turned out to be God-shaped.”
That image stood out to me, too—that God has been seeking us. I highly recommend the film Wit, starring Emma Thompson, which culminates in a wonderful illustration of that concept as seen through a children’s tale. John Donne fans should stream that film, as well.
As one who had never heard of Kingsnorth, thoroughly enjoyed the entire conversation this morning. The experience enhanced perhaps by several aspects of his journey that I found myself relating to, including once working for Greenpeace yet today wanting nothing to do with the carbon obsessed climate apoplectic puppets driving the agenda and narrative of their globalist political and economic pay masters. Similar with evolution in the spiritual realm, the quest, in response to the ‘God void’, leading ultimately to a coming-home.
Even if I couldn’t agree entirely with his views on capitalism or the suggested ‘Distributionism’ as feasible alternative, certainly very glad to have listened in and look forward to perusing some of his other works.
Thank you TheFP, Honestly and BW !
Thank you Paul for giving a voice to us nature lovers that can’t wrap our heads around the lack of rational thinking around green energy. Protecting wild places is what saves species, including us.
Drove through the mountains of West Virginia last year and all across a ridge of wild forest, there were wind turbines. It still makes my heart sick
Funny that the green movement now seems beholden to commercial interests, as this guy notes. But irony can be pretty funny.
Everything that he found in Christianity, I looked for, for 19 yrs. and didn't find. I figured that was enough time to be able to believe. but the Church people wanted me to believe everything from Genesis to Revalation and, somehow, the 3 children in the fiery funance, who were unburnt, couldn't pass the credibility test. I don't have a problem with God, but the church isn't for me. I'm glad he found what he needed and can afford to live the life that he and his family want.
Herr - I also have talked with many dogmatic Christians (many of whom think I'm a heretic in some way or another). But thankfully I have found a few Christian friends who can hold conversation, we can reason together, and that has made all the difference. May God bless you on your journey, and may you find some of what you are looking for.
Thank you. I'm no longer looking. I don't think in terms of what someone has labeled themselves. If we can have a conversation, that is enough. My friends run the gamut from Jewish to Christian, to Muslim, to Buddhist to nothingist and their religion, or lack thereof, never comes up in conversation, unless it's to make a point or fill in a picture.
Replying to both you and Marty. Right on. All of us must find our own way and we do so by first knowing and then finding ourselves. And that starts with introspection a trait that from my experience and conversations very few people these days do much anymore ( maybe people never did but introspection and social media are not very compatible in my view). I cherish many things in life generally and in my life specifically and one is has having dislogue with others especially with different belief systems and values. These conversations in some cases reinforce my own beliefs and values and in other cases have led me to modify or even reject other views or beliefs ( and vice versa). Unfortunately I find it harder these days to have many such dialogues because I find other people locked into their "position" and uninterested in even testing the foundations therefor. I appreciated this discussion with Bari because Paul shows that we are capable of greater self awareness provided we approach ourselves and various matters looking to learn and expand our knowledge base rather than lecture others.
Yes, lecturing soon becomes hectoring. In other cultures it can be even harder to find people who aren't "locked into their "position." Nevertheless, as Victor Frankel said, Man searches for meaning.
There is no meaning, no grand purpose. Live your life the best you can and try not to hurt anyone.
I'll bite. If there is no meaning, then why should I do that? Why not just run people over and take whatever I want however I want? (Serious philosophical question).
Herr, I’m sorry you are no longer looking. You are still being sought, however. Maybe give the Bible another chance without the trappings of human egos?
I enjoy the Bible Project, which has nice short videos of each Book of the Bible and how they all intersect. Featured video now connects Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount to the deep wisdom of the Torah:
https://bibleproject.com/
I'm not looking because there's nothing to look for. Everything is right in front of us. The Bible IS the trappings of the human ego. No human ego, no human. No one is going to be caught up in the wheel of Ezekiel, in person or allegorically. I prefer to read the Bible rather than watch a video about the Bible. There is no one to be sought and no seeker. Nothing is hidden, we need only to open our eyes, physically and metaphorically.
If you're inclined, have a look at the poems of the Sufi poet Hafiz, translated by Daniel Ladinsky. The Sufis figuered it out.
Yes, I’m familiar w/ Sufism a liberal reform movement of Islam. Sufi’s believe God is the object and humans the mirror's. They also have high regard for Jesus, as a prophet, healer, raiser of the dead. They do however (along w/ all other sects of Islam) reject the Cross/Crucifixion. I would suggest our collective need is to humble ourselves before God, and not cling to other idols to replace Him. Idols to replace God is the story of mankind. We always come up short. Nietzsche went so far as to claim ‘God is Dead’ (and we have killed him). It’s also noteworthy that Nietzsche’s last words at his deathbed were ‘Mother I am dumb’
I wasn't refering to the reform movement, but to Hafiz and his vision of God, not as object but as creator and center of our lives. The Sufi scholars and the poets have two different visions of God.
Dear Herr, I picture you as being Jewish like me 🙂
I'm Jewish, I don't know if I'm like you. I've never known what Jewish is. My mother was Jewish, so, according to tradition I'm Jewish. I wasn't raised Jewish, or anything, and my only connection to the religion is through reading the old testament.
I use my word "Sava" to refer to Creation, this allows all to fill in the name they use. Sava talks to us in different ways as all have different gifts and experiences. I despise those who hector when it comes to belief and Creation. Listen and you will hear Sava talking to you.
Herr F, if you don't mind me asking, what had you been looking for, for 19 years? I know you said you didn't find it. But I'm curious to know what you were you looking to find?
Herr, did you ever notice the Jews founded Christianity in order to keep Judaism going? I don't know if they meant to, but the evidence is that's what happened, so far. I support the values of both -- that's what got America here. If I had had free will, I would have been born Jewish, in a family that practiced a fairly orthodox Judaism. And, like the word "Israel" means, I would have argued with G-d all the way.
I was born Jewish, there's no advantage in that.
Yeahbut, at least I would have been taught to play the piano.
Depends on the financial situation of your family and whether where you lived was big enough to have a piano. It's never too late to learn.
Even poor Jews got ahold of a piano for their kids. Too late to learn? At 86, arthritis in the wrists and fingers, one hand with alcoholic Dupuytren's contracture (look it up), doubtful learning piano. I used to play guitar, I know. Anyway, I watch "Fidler on the Roof" every time it's on.
Where did those poor Jews put the piano. My poor Jewish family lived in a one bedroom apt, 3 adults and 1 child. My mother earned $32 a week. You don't know what you don't know. 86 isn't too late to learn, having those medical problems makes it impossible to learn. Have you tried the harmonica or are you no longer interested in playing music?
Then you're clearly doing it wrong. I was born Jewish and found TREMENDOUS advantage
To quote someone infamous; I did nothing wrong. I traded on my own merits and that was sufficient to sustain a carreer for 60 yrs. I didn't open the pack of "race" cards.
That's not the advantages I was referring to. Its seems you took it as the superficial advantages (connections, being part of a group etc)... I was ofcourse referring to the deeper more intrinsic qualities of being a jew, far from the idea of playing any race card for personal gain
Thank you for clarifying that. I was not brought up in the Jewish tradition, or, for that matter, any tradition, and have no idea of what "the deeper more intrinsic qualities of being a Jew" are.
Kalo Pascha kai Kali Anastasi, although Orthodox Christians have another month to go to celebrate Easter.