Sad state of affairs. We continue to treat women as a “minority”, giving them preferential treatment in education and jobs to the detriment of the men they eschew. Apparently women don’t like the results, i.e., a smaller pool of 666’ers. To my brothers, I suggest getting off the apps and meeting women in person. Hold yourself to a high standard and pick someone who is humble enough to recognize your worth. She is out there, guaranteed. Do things you like to do and you will eventually meet others who do those very same things. Be forward without fearing rejection. It isn’t creepy to be a happy confident male who clearly states that he finds someone else attractive right up front. If you get rejected, so what? Move on. It’s a reflection on her bad taste not your intrinsic value. And brothers, watch out for sex! Sounds good, but it will mess with your emotions and distort your judgement. Only do that if you both feel it is right and it will deepen the bond, not infuse negative feelings. IMO.
Rob, your comment is so much better than the ones currently voted above. Your bring sanity and common sense instead to riling up even more resentment. Dating apps and social media are the culprits to the current state of things.
One thing I would take some issue with is your point that women are given preferential treatments. I think in the wider society your point is valid, but in the upper echelon where power is held and also in the most influential sectors, women are still in fact the minority. That's where the perception of women in the minority comes from but these men in top spots are happy to keep the remedies at the bottom to not draw attention to themselves. The result is a skewed world where neither men nor women are happy and both feel the other sex has the advantage.
“Where power is held”: yeah, perhaps women aren’t given preference here, however, one of the most under-discussed factors in the male/female dynamic is this issue of power.
The modern feminist movement has almost entirely capitulated to defining power in masculine terms. So the “feminist” acquisition of power boils down to women acting like men…and “feminists “ seem especially fond of focusing on the baser, less responsible tendencies of men as proof of equality. I am quite frustrated with modern feminists not recognizing how they’ve shot all women in the foot by insisting that with great power comes the right to behave as badly as the worst men they know! Feminine power lies in so much more glorious arenas than the proverbial “man’s world.” Women have proved we can do almost everything we’d like to (except physical strength) as well as men. What we lack is a culture that values women AS women who love men and the complement they are to us and we are to them and the beauty of creating new little lives together in stable homes where both mother and father are present support and appreciate their individual gifts. This “us vs. them” culture is truly toxic to that end!
Deference to femininity....opening doors, holding chairs, letting women board an elevator first...are expressions of respect not a concession to superiority.
I fear that the tradition of being respectful to people you encounter has crashed on the nut-job wandering the street in a ripped jeans and dirty robe mumbling to himself as he collapses against the high-rise apartment block that was sufficiently rude as to get into his wary
Excellent advice! I missed any reference to it in the article, but my life experiences have taught me that finding someone with shared morals and values, and who is genuinely a good person is most important. Although nature, hormones and culture all place a very high a value on physical attractiveness or even sexual "compatibility," these are not the recipe for long-term relationship happiness. My sainted mother was always encouraging me to date this girl or that girl from our church, but I always thought they were too boring and, honestly, that they wouldn't "put out." That was yet another thing that my parents were right about, it turns out.
I spent most of my twenties and early thirties being single and can attest to many of the challenges in this article. I’d like to commend the author for making me so thoroughly recall the challenges in dating during that time :)
I used dating apps while living D.C. There was a direct correlation between how liberal the woman was and if she expected me to pay for the drinks, and not in the way you might initially think. I was just starting my career and barely making ends meet. 2-4 drinks at a decent bar was already $50 before tip, and then chances are one or both of us would never want to meet again. One night a woman called me a disgusting misogynist because I expressed my sincere doubt over the veracity of the claims against Kavanaugh. The average liberal woman thinks that to have a good partner he must agree with her every political opinion, which is largely informed by media outlets who regularly vilify straight white men. Just an all around miserable dating scene. I don’t miss it.
The most significant change is the dating app. What used to be meeting in a group of friends, church, or work where you had time to get things out of the way that you can't do meeting a stranger? I always found that the woman put a lifetime of work into the expectations on our first date. Let's have a good first date, then have another one. And you are so right about woke white women. They are the worst.
When I left DC, a big part of me thought I would definitely be back sooner than later. There’s a lot I liked about the city. Then in the summer of 2020 I saw videos of woke white women going around to the few restaurants that were open and making all patrons raise their fists and chant Black Lives Matter in solidarity. I think I’m good living literally anywhere else now
Yep. Lived there happily for almost 20 years. The rise of woke/BLM made it intolerable. Covid/Floyd pushed it over the cliff. So happy to be out of there! We used to routinely go to a couple of those restaurants that the "activists" targeted. Our neighborhood was littered with signs and placards telling us (white people) that we were literally killing black people (with our silence, etc). Neighborhood message board complained bitterly about us older white dudes who clearly were "the problem".
Go west an hour or more and none of this lunacy exists at all.
Unfortunately, those people have an outsized influence on our government's policies. They are literally living there for that reason. Given the shitshow that is the federal government these days, I don't think it's a coincidence. By the way, my employer wanted me to transfer to the NCR 15 years ago. I dragged my feet until a contract position opened up in Florida and have been here ever since. I would have made more money in DC, but I don't regret not moving there for a minute.
So many of them in DC put a manifesto, or at least a bunch of slogans, on their profile and say that you had better agree. Although I judge the lack of open-mindedness, I feel myself becoming like them in a way: I don't think I could be with a far-lefty because they seem to be getting crazier by the week.
I was thinking the same about the app scenario. We used to call what attracted us to another "chemistry". That cannot happen online and I submit if the initial interaction/negotiation occurs online it will not happen at the first live meeting either. No more "their eyes met across [the room, crowded dance floor.. .]. Sigh.
I will reveal myself to be an old fogey by admitting this, but I used good old-fashioned match.com because it allowed me to write about myself at length and allowed others to do so too. It wasn't about an immediate hook-up; it was about getting to know someone well: their interests, their goals, their depth of thought, and most importantly, their values. And yes chemistry CAN develop through an extended email conversation. In fact, one of the recommendations I read at the time was "Don't let yourself fall in love over email. Don't wait TOO long to meet this person." Because yes, online chemistry doesn't always translate to chemistry in person. But sometimes it does and my marriage of fourteen years proves it.
I get the feeling that this article is about people who aren't primarily "thinkers". They are "wanters". Certainly the women looking for 6-6-6 are superficial wanters and takers. Why would a man even want a woman like that? However, some of the people that this story is about are fundamentally good people who, if given the choice between writing a paragraph of prose or cleaning the bathroom, would choose the latter. They aren't necessarily superficial; they just don't have the ability or the interest to communicate over the internet in a way that would let them establish some degree of common interests with someone before they meet that person. And so they end up with disastrous dates.
So true, its something that seeing someone naturally develops attraction. Another piece meeting in person is the facade. No one is natural as you are on guard and skeptical. The group of friends or coworkers allows that to develop naturally.
I hear you on the woke women issue. I recently went out on a date which I thought went quite well and that there was mutual attraction. The next day, I get this scorching text calling me a white supremacist (I'm not at all) followed by charges of climate change denialism, and denying systemic racism. What I thought was a good conversation obviously wasn't. I was flabbergasted. If women (or men) are going to add this on top of their '666' requirements, then all hope is lost.
The female mind tends to be covert. The male mind tends to be overt. Women think and don't speak their mind very often. Women are also creatures of their peer groups, which is their girlfriends.
I have a close woman friend who can't stand the nastiness of the lockstep wokeness crowd. She also can't stand the cartoonish right wing dingbats. But, being a woman, she puts up with both sets. She smiles and goes to lunch with them because, for a woman being social is, for most, as important as breathing.
But Spartacus, when women *are* honest and speak their minds, they are punished heavily for doing so. Men are threatened by forthright women. Go to a typical gathering - say at a church - and see how in a mixed group, the men do the talking and the women do the listening. And if a woman tries to join the discussion, her input is not welcomed; the men tend to close up and go elsewhere as she's considered way too brash. But with their girlfriends, women CAN speak their minds.
But Julia, you just confirmed what I said. This is how the species is wired. Women smile and pretend and act.
Women are covert. I have known women who were less covert and did fine. Some were/are very clear. But on the whole, women are wired exactly as you say.
Firstly, it's quite common. Secondly, I write a military intelligence blog. If the reader knows my background, it situates my comments and writing. Lastly, it's a beacon to other retired soldiers etc whom I have many things in common with. Not much different than including "former professor" or "former Governor" in the body of the article etc.
I found it interesting, and he answered the question. I worked 30+ years at an Air Force base and no one I ever knew wore the rank after retirement. Guess the Army is different.
Average liberal women want everyone in their lives to agree with their every political opinion, it looks like. A lot of them cut off friends and even family members over politics.
I think it's just a general trend to fill in the vacumn of meaning that every human being needs filled. Just sad that politics - especially today's politics - would fill that void.
Maybe women inherently have a more intense need to find something to fill that void than men, hence their intensified politicism? Just musing...
A city known for being filled with single young women on the make. In days gone by that was a "target rich environment." Now it's nothing but a minefield strewn with the lunatics you described.
When I went back to college, I went to a target rich environment. It was called the girls' dorm. I met my future wife on a blind date. We have been happily married for 53 years.
If you don't go fishing, you don't catch fish.
The men described in this article, to me, sound like timid losers. Grow a backbone and ask out a woman you know. That is how it was done before dating apps were around.
Go out on a blind date. If it doesn't work out, try, try again. Success does not belong to the timid.
I remember in college a particularly beautiful young woman was being squired around on the arm of a sleazy loser. A bunch of us guys were speculating about how she ended up going out with him. And a female friend, on overhearing the speculation, interjected "because he asked her, you idiots." Oh.
I remember a similar story from my college days. Turns out the super hot chick was so hot that almost everyone was too intimidated to ask her out. But that was a different era.
53 years ago. Lololol. Maybe when you are done with dating advice you can tell us how to pay for a couple semesters of college with enough money left over to cover all the dates you found at the woman's dorm from your summer newspaper route.
Yeah, you're right. I wouldn't want to pass on something that actually worked to desperate people who are doing things that don't work. Let's keep up a culture of failure and not try proven techniques.
I thought you were married. I must be thinking of Brian. Who was it that took his grandchildren to Paris? Brian? and where is Brian. We haven't heard from him in a while.
I was single in D.C. and agree it was a miserable scene. Most of the women are very progressive, and dates would go sideways quickly if you didn't agree with every ideal they had.
There's a lot of that out there. I rule them out instantly, as soon as I detect it. It's really not the political leanings as it is the desire for control. It's disordered, and you'll find out worse things happen over time.
Haven't spent much time in DC but it seems very striving and lonely. Any potential date could also be your next career "in". Seems exhausting. Glad you moved on.
But note, too, attitudes can change...My spouse is a life-long, card-carrying, dyed in the wool, sometimes to the left of the left...
Her current stance is one of disgust and anger as to how thoroughly the ruling class has so flagrantly abused the trust that the electorate has confided in them.
When my husband comes home tonight I’m going to tell him how grateful I am for him. Not for how he curls my toes, tells me I’m beautiful or the necklace he bought for me. I’m grateful because during my lowest and darkest times he was there. When I was in need of physical care or emotional counsel he was there.
My hope for the younger generation -get your issues sorted out and find someone to settle down with. 25-50 and beyond, life is filled with land mines. You’re going to be grateful you have a partner who has your back. Choose wisely. The 666 rule? Those are meaningless without good character and integrity. A virtual girlfriend? Honestly I don’t even know what to say on that. It’s just sad.
Wizard is actually a term men are using these days to describe being a virgin over age 30. It's so ubiquitous that his its own term. Think about how sad that is.
Daisy....My husband and I have been married 28 years. We are best friends...we love, protect and cherish each other. We laugh a lot...being able to laugh with your spouse makes for a wonderful marriage. Like you, Daisy, my husband has been there for me during some dark times...I can always wake him up in the night if I'm struggling and he holds me and prays for me. I do the same for him. We are not perfect by any means...when we've hurt each other, we humble ourselves and apologize(that's hard sometimes). Our son and daughter (25 and 22) have grown up seeing their Dad love me deeply. I love that he opens doors for me, gets my coffee in the morning and always knows when something is bothering me. He does all of those things and more just because he loves me...not because he thinks I'm weak or wants to lord over me. I can't imagine any of these feminist, leftist types of women not desiring that type of man in their life.
Congrats on 28 years! We just celebrated our 24th.
My theory is this isn’t just being left or feminist.
It’s internet usage and losing touch with what is real. Young women want a life that is instagram worthy. The perfect guy-the perfect wedding -the perfect honeymoon -the perfect home - with top of the line clothing accessories-hair extensions-false eye lashes -appliances and furniture that looks like a catalog. A house that looks charming but big. It ALL has to look good in photos! They want to be envied.
Congratulations to you on 24 years 😊❤️. And yes, I agree that so much of what many young women see online is a facade. It all gives the appearance of perfection. Our 22 year old daughter deleted all of her social media a few years ago and said she feels better about herself. She said she doesn’t miss it. It was hard enough for me as a teen and young adult doing the comparison game with others so I can’t imagine what it would have been like if I had had social media.
I have a 20 yr old daughter and she still uses socials. I regret allowing her to start in middle school. I told her from the start non of it is real. In our day we had seventeen magazine - it was all to get us to feel like crap and buy stuff - don’t fall for influencer BS
I was one of the first men to find a spouse of Eharmony.com slightly more than 20 years ago. When I was on it you had to go through a long personality profile to match you up, then have controlled conversations through the app, and then after weeks of corresponding I finally got to see a picture of the woman who is now my spouse.
We've been happily married nearly 20 years! I wonder if there's something to the idea of seeing if you connect emotionally and intellectually, before all the physical stuff gets in the way? Had she cared first and been able to ask about my looks and bank account, I would have ignored her anyway.
Any person of substance shouldn't start with a focus on such ridiculous stats. It's a shame that these apps and the system in general seems to primarily cater to those craving one-night-stands over relationships of substance.
My son recently joined an app called 222place. His dad and I heard about it from a restaurant owner that hosts some of their dinners and we encouraged him to try it. No profiles or pics - just fill out a questionnaire and supposedly AI matches you with appropriate group to meet for a meal and an after event.
While he didn’t find a love match he made a big group of new friends at the event and has gone out several times with them. He seems so happy to have a new group of friends that he would NEVER have met. Interesting concept!
That sounds like an amazing concept! Where was that when I was dating online? 😜
I am happily married to a wonderful woman I met (online, go figure), but we have several male friends that we pray find partners that bring out the best in them and vice-versa. I will let them know about 222Place! Thanks Elsa!
Same. My husband and I celebrated our 17th anniversary in May. I was attracted to his personality from our first interaction via the messaging on E-Harmony. I am forever grateful our paths crossed when they did. That being said, it isn’t all so to fate. God plays a role, if we listen for His voice. I wish the author of this article had asked the men about their faith. We shun the Church and we lose the community as well. I rejoined the Catholic church right before 9/11. Although I didn’t meet my husband at church, the community I found there for me and my young boys was what I needed to grow and learn to be ‘happy with myself’. Then when I took up the dating app, I was able to access the true character of the people I conversed with because of the confidence I had in myself.
I agree with you Jody on the craving for community which the church used to provide, if only more people would go to them. Churches are designed in part to be an imperfect version of heaven, where people find community, care about one another, and genuinely work to help each other flourish, a place where everyone is loved for who they are, regardless of how they look or rate on any human scales. They are valuable because they God's creations. My earnest prayer is that churches would become this for society again.
I have a number of friends who met their spouses through dating sites 20+ years ago. Dating apps today aren't like that anymore though. Seems like everything had gone to the toilet.
Same here; met the most amazing woman imaginable on eHarmony 15 years ago and we’re both still happily married (to each other, lol). It’s whole marketing approach was based on helping people find a marriageable partner. I can’t imagine what people expect to get from Tinder where people swipe left or right purely based on appearance. Tinder selects for shallow people, so even when you “win” you lose.
This is an interesting nuance to the current dating apps vs. what you describe 15 years ago that I had not thought about. The goals of the platforms were very different. eHarmony being marriage and today's platforms being hook ups.
I met my wife on jdate in 2005. I don't think that site is even still around. From what I've gathered from single friends and from online discourse, I would basically be shut out of online dating apps entirely nowadays solely due to the fact that I'm 5'5. I understand very well that being a short man is not an attractive trait to women, but what from I've heard I just wouldn't even appear to the overwhelming majority of women, as my height would get me filtered right out.
There are a significant number of men out there who are only looking for people with excellent grounding and personalities and really don't think much of looks.
All you need is one thing you think is pretty - eyes, lips, whatever. Everyone has one of those, or most everyone that isn't a burn victim.
Dear Young Men: Stay off of dating apps. Love, Your Future Selves Who joined a house of worship, joined a fitness program, volunteered and basically got into the real world and met a nice woman who loves you for who you are and your potential in life.
This sounds fantastic in theory, but so many people are "married" to their devices that it's not as easy as you make it out to just meet people in the real world anymore. Most people live their real world existences solely to generate the necessary photos to complete their online avatars, which are more real to them than reality.
I met my husband in a dating app, would never have connected with him otherwise. I think they can be used a a tool but use the right one, my daughter also met her husband that way, married a year ago.
I do know a lot of people who met their spouses through apps but this was about 20 years ago when the apps were new. Curious, were the posts and profiles similar to what’s in this article or did you have a different experience? I am wondering if the language used is similar. I wonder how many long term commitments result now vs 20 years ago.
Women don't actually want the 666 thing. They want a man who knows how to be a man, but men seem to have forgotten how to be that. Not toxic masculine. Real masculine - good manners, chivalrous, decisive, responsible, self directed, in the world (ie available and not holed up behind a screen) and with integrity. Real women support and respect men like that with their whole selves.
Exactly, VA! How many 25-40 year old men do NOT spend an inordinate amount of time playing video games?? I would say not many. Women do not want, nor need men who waste their time with those pursuits. They need men to help shoulder the more physically rigorous tasks required in life and men who can help them make good decisions.
I agree - but I do wonder if the reason young men spend so much time playing video games is because it makes them feel ‘successful’ perhaps? The modern world offers few opportunities to ‘slay dragons’ / be masculine. Maybe this is why young men gravitate to gaming and get out of the dating market (or never try dating to begin with)??
I really hate the video gamer stereotypes. I'm an adult woman that loves to slay dragons on a videogame. My husband games too. Like any hobby, it's fine as long it's in moderation. We are happily married, awesome parents, physically healthy and active, college educated and financially secure.
It's funny though, before I met my husband men liked that I would play video games with them rather than give them a bunch crap about how it's a waste of time.
It seems that so many people, men and women, are stuck in a rut of choosing partners based on an online algorithm that prioritizes finding a person that has only ideal attributes, and none of the less than ideal attributes. This person does not exist.
Men didn't forget. Society told them to stop. Many of the things that make manly men start long before they are men. But boys are told not to do all of the things boys have historically done. So you are getting a kind of feminized man. And now people are paying for it.
Yeah, I can’t tell you how many of my girlfriends have dated or even married guys addicted to video games, unstable employment, treats them poorly during sex.
If you replace 666 with 1) a good stable job, one that can pay the bills even if it’s not riches, 2) a good sex life, no porn addiction, 3) attractive to them (again, most women I know don’t date and marry only tall guys), then I these are all extremely reasonable.
It also says a something that the examples found of women wanting 666 explicitly were “22 year old bombshells”. How many women are young bombshells? Not all of us, haha! The 5’5”, 39 year old guy making $55k should look at the requirements of single women 35-45 who are a little overweight and are making $40-60k. Those requirements are probably quite different than the 22 year old busty blonde with an exciting career trajectory.
So, women are judgey? What’s new? We’re even worse in middle school — to each other. Back in the oldey timey days, eligible young lovelies had their moms to do the dirty work, collecting intel and weeding out undesirables before a suitor could get his foot in the front parlor.
Men: Competence and confidence are very sexy qualities. Many a relationship has been launched over the successful assembly of an IKEA bookshelf.
I recently wrote an article about passport bros, and one of the main points I made in the article is that although many men say they're going overseas because western women are "not feminine," I think the greater problem is that men are no longer earning enough to provide a comfortable life for themselves let alone a family.
I live in South East Asia and the lifestyle truly is amazing, I would have to earn ~$150,000 a year in America to match the lifestyle that I have here for a pittance.
I would argue that to fix dating we need to fix a society in which the median income buys you a tiny dump of an apartment and little hope of a better future.
Ahhhhh.......someone that gets it. I have a ton of nieces and nephews in the 25-40 year old range. And the ones that are already married are the ones with good jobs. The ones that struggle (both men and women) are the ones that have more modest incomes.
It makes sense, right? If you can't afford a halfway decent lifestyle it's very difficult to attract people to you unless you're extremely beautiful/charismatic in some other way. But for people without lots of "game" it's quite hard.
Yes, hard but not impossible or even unlikely. The assumption is someone with a college degree automatically makes more money than someone without a degree. But someone with a sociology degree or an education degree, for example, isn't going to make more money than many working jobs that don't require a degree. Take the example above, a young man making $55K. Average pay for his age group is $54K.. So, there is definitely a bunch of women his age that would be likely mates even taking into consideration that some are looking for a mate with more income. I see that as an example of bias with the writer and the young man not understandine basic statistics (writer probably college educated). Add in that what women say they want and what they really want isn't the same thing. Women and men are aspirational when it comes to what they say.
The other issue is assuming what a few college educated women dedicated to pursuing a high level career do, is ubiquitous. These women are following a path that has not turned out well for them and yet can't admit the failure hiding behind "high standards."
Real problem is hidden from view. The feminization of the academy has caused men to drop out or not even apply in increasing numbers. This mismatch, currently at 62% (for bachelor degrees), is creating the situation. Young men feel this pressure of defeat and internalize it. We, as a society have told everyone if you don't go to college you are a failure. Women and men have equally internalized this lie. And now we are seeing the results of the lie. Unintended consequences...............
Update on income by age. Found a site that has median income by age and 90th percentile.
Age 30 Median Income is $35K; 90th Percentile is $85K. Age 35 Median is $44K and 90th Percentile is $109K. Age 40 Median is $45K and 90th Percentile is $121K. After that there is only very small incremental increases. So at best, if a women was willing to date a 40 year old she has priced her way out of 85% of the market with that $100K limit. Also, the young man quoted is making way over median wages for his age at $55K.
Well! "Son, be an ad-dict!" (Sung to the tune of, Son Be A Den-tist, from Little Shop of Horrors.)
Many women love a fixer-upper. Addicts send infantile "Help me!" signals. Addicts also break boundaries and don't care, which allows the woman to feel, "It's not my fault I got..."
My man! Thanks for this! I’m looking for that expat life here shortly (would like to see if you’re done any work on this topic)
Agree with you here about the “not feminine.” I’d state that this is a result of 200 years ago when the feminist movement was orchestrated to get women into the workforce (decreasing their femininity and having them compete with men) all while billionaires can get rich by getting more workers and the govt tax more:
Come now! I KNOW the Romans brought many pretty young Slavs and made them into mothers.
And that fool Caliph in Istanbul, who brought back a gorgeous Russian blonde bombshell... she imprisoned her son to protect him, which drove him insane. Then she killed all the other heirs from the harem! And made herself the power behind the throne of Islam.
This has been going on for a long, long, time. Ha!
"In the reign of Marcus Aurelius, in 166 CE, a Roman ship sailed to the port of Cattigara, in what is now southern Vietnam." They were conducted to the Han emperor's court.
I spent many years in SE Asia and am now glad to be back in the USA. There are major lifestyle variations, in particular we didn't want to raise kids there. Those are subjective though and people need to make their own choices. It was a fun place to be single, lots of people from all over the planet around.
You make me suspect that what has happened to many Californians (and long-time Austinites in my neck of the woods), is actually happening to the entirety of the US.
My future in California was to work until I died, so I retired and moved to Middle Georgia. The people are friendlier and SEEM to be more tolerant of misfits.
Even though I lived in a prosperous city in SoCal, and had a reasonable mortgage payment, the HOA fees were destroying my budget. Even if I stayed I would soon be priced out by the extraneous fees. My solution was simple: Get OUT! I can't see how these young people can survive without parental help.
Plus Georgia is beautiful. Humid but beautiful. I am south of Austin and watching the desert encroach. It is so depressing. I may be heading your way soon.
Congrats Libs - you've created a generation of insecure, unmotivated feminized men. And you wonder why people such as Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson are garnering huge followings? There used to be plenty of men who lacked all the basic "qualifications" but were happily married to very nice women. "Problem" was, they were men who knew they were men and acted like men. Do the insecure, sad males with cats described in this article sound like men?
Of course, the question left unasked is "who would want to date the vapid, materialistic, narcissistic women described in the article?"
You ended that thought perfectly. The real issue is that both sides have a date-ability problem. The men are not very 'manly' and the women not very 'womanly'. So neither side is willing to fight that hard to get the other.
I also think motivations have changed. Between women having the ability to live without needing a man to protect or finance them and men having avenues for their more carnal needs, there is just less motivation in general. Although deep down, I think both sides would be happier together, they don't have the tools to do it well. And the modern landscape makes the whole proposition much riskier.
A massive EMP would set things back to the original order of life. I'm not saying that it would be GOOD, per se, but rather that it would demonstrate whose worth would be more sought after. Red in tooth and claw!
Do not conflate Andrew Tate with Jordan Peterson. Their messages are very different. Peterson says things like "clean up your room, get a job and work hard..." Andrew Tate's message is not that empowering.
Lot of BS here. You don't have to act like a man whatever that means. I've been married for 20 years, my wife also fixes the car and does the construction around the house. That doesn't make me less of a man, or her less of a women.
And people have always been insecure about dating. Its scary to put yourself out there.
I do think expectations have changed. People think they all deserve a top 1% man (or women) but most don't. Have a realistic view of your value as a partner and date appropriately.
Yeah, We need a dating app call "Average Jane & Joe", which targets people who are open to a wide range: women open to men who are 5'5" tall, men who are fine with a plump, average-looking girl.
Geez, when did the free press comment section get so negative. Some optimism.
Look, a lot of these young men have grown up online, had boomer/gen X parents who raised them poorly and can now hardly take care of themselves, have no idea how to communicate with the opposite sex, let alone do the sex part, and simply bring little to the table for women as they’re distracted with their internet lives.
Women are stepping their ish up, men should too. We shouldn’t be lowering the bar because weak, lazy men can’t manage it. Put a copy of 12 rules for life in all these soft Peter Pan hands and pull yourself up to the level your desired mates are operating at. I did it and it worked for me—I built a career from nothing after starting in retail, I built a strong body from gamer-fat, I built a strong mind with reading + therapy, and took care of issues in myself and my life. If they could just clean their rooms they might eventually be able to take enough responsibility for their lives to land a date.
Sure the internet has fueled some unfair dynamics but certainly not all is lost.
I really appreciate this comment. We are doing young men an awful disservice by confirming the idea that they are somehow victims of social forces beyond their control. Social forces are beyond their control! But that doesn't make them victims. We should call men to a life of value, not commiserate with them about how hard and unfair things are. A young man who tackles life with courage and persistence turns himself into an eligible partner. Woman sense this quality in a man instinctively. The rest will take care of itself.
Oh my, I had a good laugh with this one. Complaining about negative comments then offering as a solution "... [they] had boomer parents who raised them poorly". I don't know what else you said because I stopped reading there.
The problem I see with what you said is that the women upping their 'ish' doesn't benefit men a whole lot. They are not doing these things to attract men. They are doing it for themselves. So what you are saying is that men need to work harder to attract women that are putting next to no effort in attracting men. That doesn't seem like much of a compromise.
I kinda see the current arena as a catch 22. If men need to do better (especially financially) they will be competing against the very same people currently rejecting them. And how do you think the news/social media would react if there were a magical wave of young men taking over all of the good paying jobs? Those same men are already constantly blamed for every bad thing that happens to women. Especially when men are still needed for so many of the lower paying jobs that people don't want to do.
It is easy to make a simple "do better", similar to video gaming "Get gud". But this issue has many variables. Not the least of which is that young women have expectations that only a small % of men would be able to attain, no matter how many of them bust their butts to get it. The whole dating landscape seems screwed up, top to bottom. And our media landscape rarely makes the endeavor look good. Every woman is a girl boss and every man is evil and/or an idiot. This sets everyone up for failure.
Society has changed too much over the decades. This dating scene is complicated. Just some observations. Men should always be learning something new and improving themselves for their own confidence and self worth. Get involved in activities where you meet quality people without sex being the primary desire and see what develops.
That's basically the same message Jordan Peterson has been telling men for the past decade, and he's vilified as a right wing nutjob. It's a strange world we're living in.
My grandma asked me about Jordan Peterson and I said he believes in personal responsibility, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, improving your life so people want to be around you.
And she said, oh well that used to just be common sense.
Yes, I still can’t believe that Peterson is regarded as a genius for his pronouncements, as though he has had this incredible novel revelation about life! It’s all just things that were completely obvious to most people not that long ago.
He is a great writer and thinker, a lot of us have the same “common sense” but can’t articulate it anywhere near as well as JP.
But I hear you, it’s sorta like “Idiocracy” when an average guy goes several hundred years into the dumb future and is the smartest guy on earth. “Stop putting Gatorade on the crops!” becomes an insight of incredible wisdom :D
How sad and disheartening for a generation far removed from mine. It feels as if we have a perfect storm of technical and sociological trends: remote work isolation, religious practice in decline, workplace relationship taboos, the tyranny of apps, real inflation, and misanthropic feminism, to name a few. Increasingly, the Luddite in me wants to jettison many of the trappings of our internet-addicted lives. I wonder if/how much circumstances would change with a return to a pre-smartphone era, where we actually speak instead of texting, pursue education rather than simply degrees, and meet each other in schools, workplaces and churches without the benefit of an online profile.
But I do love the conveniences: shopping, banking, reading online. What to do, what to do. It’s a puzzlement.
And friend circles seem to be smaller and fewer so a common way people met mates was "a friend introduced us." And now there are fewer friends to perform that service.
I suppose that could be part of the issue. Being broken down to essentially being a walking wallet doesn't exactly motivate someone to want to go out and get into a relationship.
Remote work and very few opportunities for social interaction have created quite the conundrum. People do not go to church either. We all recognize the problems but seem unwilling to address them. I fear the internet will lead us all to our demise alone and lonely.
There are lots of nice and normal women on dating sites. However, they aren't the ones showing T&A in their photos with tag lines about how you better be rich and hot and whatnot. As in many things in life, be discerning.
That’s quite a judgement you’re making over here. 12 years ago when I met my now husband on OkCupid, there were a number of women “worth knowing” on those dating sites. Maybe stay away from blanket judgements like that, because let me tell you, it’s the same as saying that all men on dating sites are creepy perverts who just want sex.
Dunno how old you are. I'm leery of response because my experience with the Great Game occurred when any viable partner's age would have precluded any but Biblical-grade reproduction. I very strongly suspect that, under a mutually-fertile regime, it's a real snake pit, for many reasons.
Fertility in the US is 1.6 and dropping. It needs to be a minimum of 2.1 just to stay even. And 1.6 isn’t bad: South Korea is 0.8. We can argue about the reasons but the undeniable reality is that modernity is failing.
I think that’s primarily due to the overwhelming lack of support for mothers who’d like to do both - raise children and have a career. I personally can’t imagine having a second child - how in the world to afford two kids in daycare? (That’s not the only reason for being one and done, but it’s a big one.)
I would argue, Zoikin, that low fertility rates are partially due to devaluing motherhood so that men and women don't recognize it as an important and noble undertaking. A man and a woman together can commit to raising a family, having a fulfilling life, and making a go of it financially. That is very different from each looking to find satisfaction and fulfillment in a career and hoping that the other parts of your life fall into place.
It sounds like you’re basically saying that women need to be satisfied just by taking care of their family and not trying to have a career. Am I reading your comment correctly? Are you advocating a return to “traditional” values of a working man and a stay at home mom?
Not exactly. I am saying that we are actively discouraging young women who would find raising a family to be a satisfying career (for the first part of their adult lives - it is very possible to raise a family and then have a different career. It does not work as well to focus until 40, let's say on your professional career and then find a good husband and have a family) from even considering that or knowing that it might be true for them. And we are discouraging men from valuing such women and recognizing that shouldering the economic burden is easier and more meaningful when you are doing it for a family. We have stopped presenting marriage as a partnership where the unit works together for everyone's benefit and instead we see individuals who think they can and must do everything themselves. This is a huge topic - which is why my husband and my book on it was just published. The Holistic You: Integrating Your Family, Finances, Faith, Friendships and Fitness.
I see what you’re saying, and of course there’s a lot of truth to that. Unfortunately though, because of a total lack of federal support for raising children, often one man’s single income is just not enough to raise children. I suspect that a number of women who’d prefer to take time out from jobs/careers simply can’t do so because their families can’t thrive on one source of income.
Where we would disagree is the role of the government. I think that they cause the damage that leads to it being more difficult to live on one income because or government out-of-control spending, inflation, regulation etc., etc. So making one more entitlement (day care) helps in the short run and is destructive in the long run. I don't have a brilliant answer on a large scale (I'm not running for office!) but I don't think we can fix things by continuing on the wrong road. However, my concern is for individual families and I think a lot of what is needed is an attitude adjustment as to what is really important in our lives.
I’m totally with you Zoikin! My husband and I are discussing when to have children now, and it’s a shockingly expensive proposition. Like you said, daycare is a huge one - if you can get it, there are often year plus waiting lists in even mid sized cities now, and I know a couple that paid for daycare for five months before their child was ready for it, just to reserve their spot.
And get it you must since the housing crisis has made housing so unaffordable. Rent for a two bedroom is well over $2k/month in most cities, mortgages often even more, and not everyone has jobs that can translate to rural areas. We’d love two or three kids, but will likely only have one due to housing. (And that’s with a household income of $130k.)
I’d love for either me or my husband to stay home the first five years (honestly he’d probably be better at it, I make more money and he’s always been more conscientious about the home), but that’s years of it being one income, of barely making enough just for rent and groceries, no extras at all like trips to the aquarium for the kid, no car, no security if the working person lost their job.
I plan to have at least four, and I have no real idea how it's going to work but I intend to work when I can, stay home when needed, move somewhere affordable, and have my helpful husband by my side through all of it. If people wanted more kids they would do it, although I agree it's all about priorities.
I know right? Have one the way:) But I think it'll be okay. My sister has 5 kids btw, and she has a great fulfilling and flexible career that works. My other sister however was in school for the births of her first two and it was really hard for her. However, she is persisting and is getting her doctorate soon with a third on the way. It's not easy. But I have hopes.
4 kids here, I always tell people it’s not expensive because you stop spending money on going out and the other things childless people do to pass the time. I know people are different but the concept “I need to wait until I have enough money to have kids” doesn’t compute in my tiny brain.
Right, that’s true. But i think it’s at least worth it to try and make family life more affordable in this country.. IF population growth is a real concern.
I mean, the only fool proof way to raise fertility rates is to keep women out of education. Otherwise we realize that we can do something else with our lives besides just having babies. 🤷🏻♀️
Otherwise we realize we can do something else with our lives than JUST having BABIES-
And therein lies the problem.
There is one thing - ONE- that women can do and men cannot- bear children and feed their children. Period.
Modern society has continued to devalue that to the fullest. The evidence is in the children in the education system, in the political arena.
I chose to stay home when I could have finished law school (first gen blue collar family).
I choose to stay home to homeschool our “bonus baby” had at the age of 41 ( I had 3 before the age of 31).
I chose to drive a minivan to 262k; live in a “mixed” professional; socio economic neighborhood; cook most meals at home; not have the best phone; newest clothes or thousands of tv options.
But the legacy of our children- 6 total from our blended (yes we’re both previously divorced) brood- THAT legacy of raising humans to be productive members of society- is priceless. And at 50; I can look back and know it was better than any corporate job and more fulfilling emotionally and spiritually than any bonus; raise, promotion would have ever provided.
We’ve had (and continue to have) ups and downs and problems and issues and disappointments and even regrets.
There are choices we make. Things have not been easy. But I can say NOW with kids ranging between 9 and 24- I would do it all again.
The issue is choice. In what we value, in how we spend money, in how hard we work, and saying NO to the masses.
The generation is alone because they choose to be alone- and fill their lives with nothing. They’ve been taught that discomfort isn’t ok; and if that is your main focus then life will be lonely, sad and quite boring.
We can only learn by doing and failing. We can only have love by being with other people- not a title, car, vacation or bank acct.
Man, you’re so binary saying that only women can have babies. What about all those trans men and non binary people?!
Just kidding.
I would LOVE for men to be able to have children. I don’t see though how the fact that only women can have kids means that every woman MUST have one. It’s not the Middle Ages. There are enough people in the world. Women shouldn’t be made to feel guilty if they don’t want to have kids or if they want to choose to focus on other endeavors first.
Personally I worked for my career from the age of 5. (I’m a professional classical musician.) Five years is a very long time to be out of work for me, it would mean an end to a career that took many years, and a whole lot of blood, sweat, and tears to build. It wasn’t an option.
Personally I think the country is overpopulated. But I also think if it is a problem that the government cannot fix it. We as a people have got to move beyond the notion of government fixes for what ails us. It is a failure and has the nation $32,850,000,000,000 in debt and the US dollar worth a fraction of what it once was. The biggest reason population is an issue is because the social security system needs new payers to keep up the old payees.
Fertility rates are dropping across the world. As countries develop, fertility rates dropped. There is not ONE developed country with positive fertility.
It is and it is not. We are talking about replacement population. Countries that people want to move to can use immigration for this. It just needs to be controlled immigration. That is why China will collapse. Almost nobody wants to move there.
It doesn’t really matter. If they stay long enough, they or their children will be Americans.
I doubt everyone will agree with me, but I think anyone who has enough grit to come to the US and try to be successful is likely to be a good citizen. Many people who are born citizens here don’t appreciate it as much as they will.
The US will look very different in 100 years, but it also looked very different 100 years ago. We are still a melting pot, but that is a strength not a weakness.
I have no way of knowing. Are there statistics available? Then there's the question of what do you mean by "be Americans?" I come from a family of immigrants who all became American citizens.
This is good advice for an individual, but 6/10 men in their 20s with no girlfriend/partner is a societal problem. If they weren't sedated by pornography/AI girlfriends/girlfriends for profit and intimidated by HR/the government, society would crumble. Why do these guys bother working at all?
Sad state of affairs. We continue to treat women as a “minority”, giving them preferential treatment in education and jobs to the detriment of the men they eschew. Apparently women don’t like the results, i.e., a smaller pool of 666’ers. To my brothers, I suggest getting off the apps and meeting women in person. Hold yourself to a high standard and pick someone who is humble enough to recognize your worth. She is out there, guaranteed. Do things you like to do and you will eventually meet others who do those very same things. Be forward without fearing rejection. It isn’t creepy to be a happy confident male who clearly states that he finds someone else attractive right up front. If you get rejected, so what? Move on. It’s a reflection on her bad taste not your intrinsic value. And brothers, watch out for sex! Sounds good, but it will mess with your emotions and distort your judgement. Only do that if you both feel it is right and it will deepen the bond, not infuse negative feelings. IMO.
Rob, your comment is so much better than the ones currently voted above. Your bring sanity and common sense instead to riling up even more resentment. Dating apps and social media are the culprits to the current state of things.
One thing I would take some issue with is your point that women are given preferential treatments. I think in the wider society your point is valid, but in the upper echelon where power is held and also in the most influential sectors, women are still in fact the minority. That's where the perception of women in the minority comes from but these men in top spots are happy to keep the remedies at the bottom to not draw attention to themselves. The result is a skewed world where neither men nor women are happy and both feel the other sex has the advantage.
“Where power is held”: yeah, perhaps women aren’t given preference here, however, one of the most under-discussed factors in the male/female dynamic is this issue of power.
The modern feminist movement has almost entirely capitulated to defining power in masculine terms. So the “feminist” acquisition of power boils down to women acting like men…and “feminists “ seem especially fond of focusing on the baser, less responsible tendencies of men as proof of equality. I am quite frustrated with modern feminists not recognizing how they’ve shot all women in the foot by insisting that with great power comes the right to behave as badly as the worst men they know! Feminine power lies in so much more glorious arenas than the proverbial “man’s world.” Women have proved we can do almost everything we’d like to (except physical strength) as well as men. What we lack is a culture that values women AS women who love men and the complement they are to us and we are to them and the beauty of creating new little lives together in stable homes where both mother and father are present support and appreciate their individual gifts. This “us vs. them” culture is truly toxic to that end!
Well said. And absolutely true.
Deference to femininity....opening doors, holding chairs, letting women board an elevator first...are expressions of respect not a concession to superiority.
I fear that the tradition of being respectful to people you encounter has crashed on the nut-job wandering the street in a ripped jeans and dirty robe mumbling to himself as he collapses against the high-rise apartment block that was sufficiently rude as to get into his wary
Excellent advice! I missed any reference to it in the article, but my life experiences have taught me that finding someone with shared morals and values, and who is genuinely a good person is most important. Although nature, hormones and culture all place a very high a value on physical attractiveness or even sexual "compatibility," these are not the recipe for long-term relationship happiness. My sainted mother was always encouraging me to date this girl or that girl from our church, but I always thought they were too boring and, honestly, that they wouldn't "put out." That was yet another thing that my parents were right about, it turns out.
Amen to all that brother.
I spent most of my twenties and early thirties being single and can attest to many of the challenges in this article. I’d like to commend the author for making me so thoroughly recall the challenges in dating during that time :)
I used dating apps while living D.C. There was a direct correlation between how liberal the woman was and if she expected me to pay for the drinks, and not in the way you might initially think. I was just starting my career and barely making ends meet. 2-4 drinks at a decent bar was already $50 before tip, and then chances are one or both of us would never want to meet again. One night a woman called me a disgusting misogynist because I expressed my sincere doubt over the veracity of the claims against Kavanaugh. The average liberal woman thinks that to have a good partner he must agree with her every political opinion, which is largely informed by media outlets who regularly vilify straight white men. Just an all around miserable dating scene. I don’t miss it.
The most significant change is the dating app. What used to be meeting in a group of friends, church, or work where you had time to get things out of the way that you can't do meeting a stranger? I always found that the woman put a lifetime of work into the expectations on our first date. Let's have a good first date, then have another one. And you are so right about woke white women. They are the worst.
When I left DC, a big part of me thought I would definitely be back sooner than later. There’s a lot I liked about the city. Then in the summer of 2020 I saw videos of woke white women going around to the few restaurants that were open and making all patrons raise their fists and chant Black Lives Matter in solidarity. I think I’m good living literally anywhere else now
Yep. Lived there happily for almost 20 years. The rise of woke/BLM made it intolerable. Covid/Floyd pushed it over the cliff. So happy to be out of there! We used to routinely go to a couple of those restaurants that the "activists" targeted. Our neighborhood was littered with signs and placards telling us (white people) that we were literally killing black people (with our silence, etc). Neighborhood message board complained bitterly about us older white dudes who clearly were "the problem".
Go west an hour or more and none of this lunacy exists at all.
Unfortunately, those people have an outsized influence on our government's policies. They are literally living there for that reason. Given the shitshow that is the federal government these days, I don't think it's a coincidence. By the way, my employer wanted me to transfer to the NCR 15 years ago. I dragged my feet until a contract position opened up in Florida and have been here ever since. I would have made more money in DC, but I don't regret not moving there for a minute.
I live inside the Beltway. It's godawful here. I am counting the days when I can retire and move out.
So many of them in DC put a manifesto, or at least a bunch of slogans, on their profile and say that you had better agree. Although I judge the lack of open-mindedness, I feel myself becoming like them in a way: I don't think I could be with a far-lefty because they seem to be getting crazier by the week.
I was thinking the same about the app scenario. We used to call what attracted us to another "chemistry". That cannot happen online and I submit if the initial interaction/negotiation occurs online it will not happen at the first live meeting either. No more "their eyes met across [the room, crowded dance floor.. .]. Sigh.
I will reveal myself to be an old fogey by admitting this, but I used good old-fashioned match.com because it allowed me to write about myself at length and allowed others to do so too. It wasn't about an immediate hook-up; it was about getting to know someone well: their interests, their goals, their depth of thought, and most importantly, their values. And yes chemistry CAN develop through an extended email conversation. In fact, one of the recommendations I read at the time was "Don't let yourself fall in love over email. Don't wait TOO long to meet this person." Because yes, online chemistry doesn't always translate to chemistry in person. But sometimes it does and my marriage of fourteen years proves it.
I have a 20 year marriage thanks to Match! They’ve made it much more detailed and complicated now; doubt I would’ve found my husband today.
Thanks for the input. You are hardly a foggy. I pre-date all of that.
I get the feeling that this article is about people who aren't primarily "thinkers". They are "wanters". Certainly the women looking for 6-6-6 are superficial wanters and takers. Why would a man even want a woman like that? However, some of the people that this story is about are fundamentally good people who, if given the choice between writing a paragraph of prose or cleaning the bathroom, would choose the latter. They aren't necessarily superficial; they just don't have the ability or the interest to communicate over the internet in a way that would let them establish some degree of common interests with someone before they meet that person. And so they end up with disastrous dates.
Valid point. Very valid. I think of the internet as an ADD world, all abuzz. And it is very hard to have meaningful communication in snippets.
So true, its something that seeing someone naturally develops attraction. Another piece meeting in person is the facade. No one is natural as you are on guard and skeptical. The group of friends or coworkers allows that to develop naturally.
I hear you on the woke women issue. I recently went out on a date which I thought went quite well and that there was mutual attraction. The next day, I get this scorching text calling me a white supremacist (I'm not at all) followed by charges of climate change denialism, and denying systemic racism. What I thought was a good conversation obviously wasn't. I was flabbergasted. If women (or men) are going to add this on top of their '666' requirements, then all hope is lost.
you dodged a bullet , lucky you got that text before you wasted more time on whatever you dated
Wow, just say " I don't think we clicked, best of luck". She sounds like exhaustion in human form.
Been there, when you thought it went fine and got a cold fish to the face. Onward!
The female mind tends to be covert. The male mind tends to be overt. Women think and don't speak their mind very often. Women are also creatures of their peer groups, which is their girlfriends.
I have a close woman friend who can't stand the nastiness of the lockstep wokeness crowd. She also can't stand the cartoonish right wing dingbats. But, being a woman, she puts up with both sets. She smiles and goes to lunch with them because, for a woman being social is, for most, as important as breathing.
So, don't expect honesty except in that form.
But Spartacus, when women *are* honest and speak their minds, they are punished heavily for doing so. Men are threatened by forthright women. Go to a typical gathering - say at a church - and see how in a mixed group, the men do the talking and the women do the listening. And if a woman tries to join the discussion, her input is not welcomed; the men tend to close up and go elsewhere as she's considered way too brash. But with their girlfriends, women CAN speak their minds.
But Julia, you just confirmed what I said. This is how the species is wired. Women smile and pretend and act.
Women are covert. I have known women who were less covert and did fine. Some were/are very clear. But on the whole, women are wired exactly as you say.
"But I might not be welcomed!"
That. That is it. Precisely.
I'm not. I love that lol. Just saying......
I am with Hulverhead on this. Thanks for your service.
Thank you. 41 long years ;)
Honest question: Why do you lead with your rank, especially since you're retired? What's that about?
Firstly, it's quite common. Secondly, I write a military intelligence blog. If the reader knows my background, it situates my comments and writing. Lastly, it's a beacon to other retired soldiers etc whom I have many things in common with. Not much different than including "former professor" or "former Governor" in the body of the article etc.
Why do doctors lead with: Dr. Beeblebrox?
A military rank of LtCol is a lifetime of very hard work. It probably involved death of friends and soldiers in command. He earned it.
I found it interesting, and he answered the question. I worked 30+ years at an Air Force base and no one I ever knew wore the rank after retirement. Guess the Army is different.
There’s many military blogs and forums where retired NCOs and officers list their rank. It’s actually fairly common.
This is not a military blog or forum. so I thought it was a little odd.
The same reason that Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, George Bush, etc. are still called "Mister President".
Wow. Probably for the best.
Average liberal women want everyone in their lives to agree with their every political opinion, it looks like. A lot of them cut off friends and even family members over politics.
Clearly nobody here prioritizes people agreeing with their political opinions.
I think it's just a general trend to fill in the vacumn of meaning that every human being needs filled. Just sad that politics - especially today's politics - would fill that void.
Maybe women inherently have a more intense need to find something to fill that void than men, hence their intensified politicism? Just musing...
I think that is true of those who identify as
modern liberals in general though, not just women. That gotta have bona fides with the tribe thing.
Congratulations on getting out !
Haha thank you! Recently got a job offer to move back to DC. Thought for five seconds about the average person living there and decisively declined.
A city known for being filled with single young women on the make. In days gone by that was a "target rich environment." Now it's nothing but a minefield strewn with the lunatics you described.
When I went back to college, I went to a target rich environment. It was called the girls' dorm. I met my future wife on a blind date. We have been happily married for 53 years.
If you don't go fishing, you don't catch fish.
The men described in this article, to me, sound like timid losers. Grow a backbone and ask out a woman you know. That is how it was done before dating apps were around.
Go out on a blind date. If it doesn't work out, try, try again. Success does not belong to the timid.
Face it. What woman wants to marry a wimp?
I remember in college a particularly beautiful young woman was being squired around on the arm of a sleazy loser. A bunch of us guys were speculating about how she ended up going out with him. And a female friend, on overhearing the speculation, interjected "because he asked her, you idiots." Oh.
Exactly.
I remember a similar story from my college days. Turns out the super hot chick was so hot that almost everyone was too intimidated to ask her out. But that was a different era.
Yes!!!
Hilarious! Cue Elvis Costello. "Is she really going out with him?"
Cocaine seems also often to play a role, in my observation.
I do not think it is that simple anymore LP. It would get you a visit to HR, a post on the creepy guy site, . . ..
Lynne, I am not saying ask someone at work. I'm saying ask a woman you know or have met outside of work.
There is an old saying about workplace romances, "You don't shit where you eat."
Crude but on the money.
53 years ago. Lololol. Maybe when you are done with dating advice you can tell us how to pay for a couple semesters of college with enough money left over to cover all the dates you found at the woman's dorm from your summer newspaper route.
Thank you for your kind words.
This is what we need more of. People who haven't dated in over half a century telling young men what they are doing wrong.
Yeah, you're right. I wouldn't want to pass on something that actually worked to desperate people who are doing things that don't work. Let's keep up a culture of failure and not try proven techniques.
You are a real sage, a font of wisdom.
It appears the young men need advice from someone who cares.
Very snarky
You have described DC perfectly.
666 rule - Whoever made that rule up must have been talking about you, me, Kevin and Brian but not compro.
Don't get too excited girls. Bruce and I are married but you can still dream.
Married? Me? lol
Speaking of Kevin....... This topic would be red meat for him
I thought you were married. I must be thinking of Brian. Who was it that took his grandchildren to Paris? Brian? and where is Brian. We haven't heard from him in a while.
I can't wait to see his response.
LOL! Thanks LP!
Smart move staying out of the beltway swamp.
I like how the average conservative/MAGA woman would never expect her partner to agree with every political position.
I was single in D.C. and agree it was a miserable scene. Most of the women are very progressive, and dates would go sideways quickly if you didn't agree with every ideal they had.
There's a lot of that out there. I rule them out instantly, as soon as I detect it. It's really not the political leanings as it is the desire for control. It's disordered, and you'll find out worse things happen over time.
Haven't spent much time in DC but it seems very striving and lonely. Any potential date could also be your next career "in". Seems exhausting. Glad you moved on.
Be happy that you dodged the bullet.
But note, too, attitudes can change...My spouse is a life-long, card-carrying, dyed in the wool, sometimes to the left of the left...
Her current stance is one of disgust and anger as to how thoroughly the ruling class has so flagrantly abused the trust that the electorate has confided in them.
When my husband comes home tonight I’m going to tell him how grateful I am for him. Not for how he curls my toes, tells me I’m beautiful or the necklace he bought for me. I’m grateful because during my lowest and darkest times he was there. When I was in need of physical care or emotional counsel he was there.
My hope for the younger generation -get your issues sorted out and find someone to settle down with. 25-50 and beyond, life is filled with land mines. You’re going to be grateful you have a partner who has your back. Choose wisely. The 666 rule? Those are meaningless without good character and integrity. A virtual girlfriend? Honestly I don’t even know what to say on that. It’s just sad.
This! Advice to young women--marry a guy who is good around the house. Cook nice meals for him. Be a team.
And remember, it’s not the wand, it’s the wizard.
Wizard is actually a term men are using these days to describe being a virgin over age 30. It's so ubiquitous that his its own term. Think about how sad that is.
How did I make it nearly 47 years without ever hearing “it’s not the wand, it’s the wizard”? Thanks Maureen!
How did I make it nearly 47 years without ever hearing “it’s not the wand, it’s the wizard”? Thanks Maureen!
Daisy....My husband and I have been married 28 years. We are best friends...we love, protect and cherish each other. We laugh a lot...being able to laugh with your spouse makes for a wonderful marriage. Like you, Daisy, my husband has been there for me during some dark times...I can always wake him up in the night if I'm struggling and he holds me and prays for me. I do the same for him. We are not perfect by any means...when we've hurt each other, we humble ourselves and apologize(that's hard sometimes). Our son and daughter (25 and 22) have grown up seeing their Dad love me deeply. I love that he opens doors for me, gets my coffee in the morning and always knows when something is bothering me. He does all of those things and more just because he loves me...not because he thinks I'm weak or wants to lord over me. I can't imagine any of these feminist, leftist types of women not desiring that type of man in their life.
Congrats on 28 years! We just celebrated our 24th.
My theory is this isn’t just being left or feminist.
It’s internet usage and losing touch with what is real. Young women want a life that is instagram worthy. The perfect guy-the perfect wedding -the perfect honeymoon -the perfect home - with top of the line clothing accessories-hair extensions-false eye lashes -appliances and furniture that looks like a catalog. A house that looks charming but big. It ALL has to look good in photos! They want to be envied.
It’s the female version of porn addiction.
Congratulations to you on 24 years 😊❤️. And yes, I agree that so much of what many young women see online is a facade. It all gives the appearance of perfection. Our 22 year old daughter deleted all of her social media a few years ago and said she feels better about herself. She said she doesn’t miss it. It was hard enough for me as a teen and young adult doing the comparison game with others so I can’t imagine what it would have been like if I had had social media.
I have a 20 yr old daughter and she still uses socials. I regret allowing her to start in middle school. I told her from the start non of it is real. In our day we had seventeen magazine - it was all to get us to feel like crap and buy stuff - don’t fall for influencer BS
Don't forget the lip filler!
Oh yes a necessity for nearly every famous female over 35.
I was one of the first men to find a spouse of Eharmony.com slightly more than 20 years ago. When I was on it you had to go through a long personality profile to match you up, then have controlled conversations through the app, and then after weeks of corresponding I finally got to see a picture of the woman who is now my spouse.
We've been happily married nearly 20 years! I wonder if there's something to the idea of seeing if you connect emotionally and intellectually, before all the physical stuff gets in the way? Had she cared first and been able to ask about my looks and bank account, I would have ignored her anyway.
Any person of substance shouldn't start with a focus on such ridiculous stats. It's a shame that these apps and the system in general seems to primarily cater to those craving one-night-stands over relationships of substance.
My son recently joined an app called 222place. His dad and I heard about it from a restaurant owner that hosts some of their dinners and we encouraged him to try it. No profiles or pics - just fill out a questionnaire and supposedly AI matches you with appropriate group to meet for a meal and an after event.
While he didn’t find a love match he made a big group of new friends at the event and has gone out several times with them. He seems so happy to have a new group of friends that he would NEVER have met. Interesting concept!
That sounds like an amazing concept! Where was that when I was dating online? 😜
I am happily married to a wonderful woman I met (online, go figure), but we have several male friends that we pray find partners that bring out the best in them and vice-versa. I will let them know about 222Place! Thanks Elsa!
Same. My husband and I celebrated our 17th anniversary in May. I was attracted to his personality from our first interaction via the messaging on E-Harmony. I am forever grateful our paths crossed when they did. That being said, it isn’t all so to fate. God plays a role, if we listen for His voice. I wish the author of this article had asked the men about their faith. We shun the Church and we lose the community as well. I rejoined the Catholic church right before 9/11. Although I didn’t meet my husband at church, the community I found there for me and my young boys was what I needed to grow and learn to be ‘happy with myself’. Then when I took up the dating app, I was able to access the true character of the people I conversed with because of the confidence I had in myself.
I agree with you Jody on the craving for community which the church used to provide, if only more people would go to them. Churches are designed in part to be an imperfect version of heaven, where people find community, care about one another, and genuinely work to help each other flourish, a place where everyone is loved for who they are, regardless of how they look or rate on any human scales. They are valuable because they God's creations. My earnest prayer is that churches would become this for society again.
I have a number of friends who met their spouses through dating sites 20+ years ago. Dating apps today aren't like that anymore though. Seems like everything had gone to the toilet.
Now, now! Not ALL toilets are bad!
They are too detailed. Met my husband on Match 20 years ago; much simpler questionnaire back then.
I know a couple of couples who met through eHarmony, and they seem to be doing well.
My husband and I have been together 16 years. Match dot com
Same here; met the most amazing woman imaginable on eHarmony 15 years ago and we’re both still happily married (to each other, lol). It’s whole marketing approach was based on helping people find a marriageable partner. I can’t imagine what people expect to get from Tinder where people swipe left or right purely based on appearance. Tinder selects for shallow people, so even when you “win” you lose.
This is an interesting nuance to the current dating apps vs. what you describe 15 years ago that I had not thought about. The goals of the platforms were very different. eHarmony being marriage and today's platforms being hook ups.
Me too, Married 14 years!
I met my wife on jdate in 2005. I don't think that site is even still around. From what I've gathered from single friends and from online discourse, I would basically be shut out of online dating apps entirely nowadays solely due to the fact that I'm 5'5. I understand very well that being a short man is not an attractive trait to women, but what from I've heard I just wouldn't even appear to the overwhelming majority of women, as my height would get me filtered right out.
My friend changed my life when she told me "they're not that short when they're lying down". I take your point though.
As an average looking woman I've always let me personality shine so these new apps would be awful for me also.
There are a significant number of men out there who are only looking for people with excellent grounding and personalities and really don't think much of looks.
All you need is one thing you think is pretty - eyes, lips, whatever. Everyone has one of those, or most everyone that isn't a burn victim.
Yeah, I've always done ok for myself. Someone for everyone. People in general are usually attracted to confidence.
Dear Young Men: Stay off of dating apps. Love, Your Future Selves Who joined a house of worship, joined a fitness program, volunteered and basically got into the real world and met a nice woman who loves you for who you are and your potential in life.
Agree, Alison! Dating apps are a marketplace for all the commodities selling themselves and those buying.
Beyond a certain age, dating apps are more like a downmarket thrift store.
(I'd be an old tweed jacket, patched at the elbows and notably worse for wear, shoved into the middle of a rack near the back.)
And that jacket is likely better constructed than most high-end designer wallet crushers today.
Perhaps, and it might be a perfect fit for someone out there, but it's a bit hard to find and not shown to best effect on a swipe-left sort of app.
A sweet gem!
This sounds fantastic in theory, but so many people are "married" to their devices that it's not as easy as you make it out to just meet people in the real world anymore. Most people live their real world existences solely to generate the necessary photos to complete their online avatars, which are more real to them than reality.
True. When we decisively lose a war and most US cities are smoking rubble, that will probably change.
I met my husband in a dating app, would never have connected with him otherwise. I think they can be used a a tool but use the right one, my daughter also met her husband that way, married a year ago.
I do know a lot of people who met their spouses through apps but this was about 20 years ago when the apps were new. Curious, were the posts and profiles similar to what’s in this article or did you have a different experience? I am wondering if the language used is similar. I wonder how many long term commitments result now vs 20 years ago.
Women don't actually want the 666 thing. They want a man who knows how to be a man, but men seem to have forgotten how to be that. Not toxic masculine. Real masculine - good manners, chivalrous, decisive, responsible, self directed, in the world (ie available and not holed up behind a screen) and with integrity. Real women support and respect men like that with their whole selves.
Exactly, VA! How many 25-40 year old men do NOT spend an inordinate amount of time playing video games?? I would say not many. Women do not want, nor need men who waste their time with those pursuits. They need men to help shoulder the more physically rigorous tasks required in life and men who can help them make good decisions.
I agree - but I do wonder if the reason young men spend so much time playing video games is because it makes them feel ‘successful’ perhaps? The modern world offers few opportunities to ‘slay dragons’ / be masculine. Maybe this is why young men gravitate to gaming and get out of the dating market (or never try dating to begin with)??
I really hate the video gamer stereotypes. I'm an adult woman that loves to slay dragons on a videogame. My husband games too. Like any hobby, it's fine as long it's in moderation. We are happily married, awesome parents, physically healthy and active, college educated and financially secure.
It's funny though, before I met my husband men liked that I would play video games with them rather than give them a bunch crap about how it's a waste of time.
It seems that so many people, men and women, are stuck in a rut of choosing partners based on an online algorithm that prioritizes finding a person that has only ideal attributes, and none of the less than ideal attributes. This person does not exist.
Yes, video games do fill a human need for meaning, by creating opportunities for purposeful action, that is rewarded.
While playing, one can forget that the purpose, achievement and meaning are all fictional.
If overdone, it becomes a poor substitute for the real thing.
Women may need that, but their dating expectations don't match that need.
I think the problem is that women's wants and needs are not reconciled in this era.
Men didn't forget. Society told them to stop. Many of the things that make manly men start long before they are men. But boys are told not to do all of the things boys have historically done. So you are getting a kind of feminized man. And now people are paying for it.
"The War Against Boys: How misguided feminism is harming our young men" by Christina Hoff Sommers
I don't disagree, but I think the problem is that dating expectations don't match up with that. It's a "you can't there from here" conundrum.
Yeah, I can’t tell you how many of my girlfriends have dated or even married guys addicted to video games, unstable employment, treats them poorly during sex.
If you replace 666 with 1) a good stable job, one that can pay the bills even if it’s not riches, 2) a good sex life, no porn addiction, 3) attractive to them (again, most women I know don’t date and marry only tall guys), then I these are all extremely reasonable.
It also says a something that the examples found of women wanting 666 explicitly were “22 year old bombshells”. How many women are young bombshells? Not all of us, haha! The 5’5”, 39 year old guy making $55k should look at the requirements of single women 35-45 who are a little overweight and are making $40-60k. Those requirements are probably quite different than the 22 year old busty blonde with an exciting career trajectory.
VA: You are far more diplomatic than I.
So, women are judgey? What’s new? We’re even worse in middle school — to each other. Back in the oldey timey days, eligible young lovelies had their moms to do the dirty work, collecting intel and weeding out undesirables before a suitor could get his foot in the front parlor.
Men: Competence and confidence are very sexy qualities. Many a relationship has been launched over the successful assembly of an IKEA bookshelf.
Even if that's true, there's an awful lot of "not real" women who will devote their lives to destroying respectful, independent-minded, strong men.
And those "not real" women look the same as the "real" ones, as far as I can tell.
I recently wrote an article about passport bros, and one of the main points I made in the article is that although many men say they're going overseas because western women are "not feminine," I think the greater problem is that men are no longer earning enough to provide a comfortable life for themselves let alone a family.
https://theunhedgedcapitalist.substack.com/p/do-you-even-have-a-passport-bro
I live in South East Asia and the lifestyle truly is amazing, I would have to earn ~$150,000 a year in America to match the lifestyle that I have here for a pittance.
I would argue that to fix dating we need to fix a society in which the median income buys you a tiny dump of an apartment and little hope of a better future.
Ahhhhh.......someone that gets it. I have a ton of nieces and nephews in the 25-40 year old range. And the ones that are already married are the ones with good jobs. The ones that struggle (both men and women) are the ones that have more modest incomes.
It makes sense, right? If you can't afford a halfway decent lifestyle it's very difficult to attract people to you unless you're extremely beautiful/charismatic in some other way. But for people without lots of "game" it's quite hard.
Yes, hard but not impossible or even unlikely. The assumption is someone with a college degree automatically makes more money than someone without a degree. But someone with a sociology degree or an education degree, for example, isn't going to make more money than many working jobs that don't require a degree. Take the example above, a young man making $55K. Average pay for his age group is $54K.. So, there is definitely a bunch of women his age that would be likely mates even taking into consideration that some are looking for a mate with more income. I see that as an example of bias with the writer and the young man not understandine basic statistics (writer probably college educated). Add in that what women say they want and what they really want isn't the same thing. Women and men are aspirational when it comes to what they say.
The other issue is assuming what a few college educated women dedicated to pursuing a high level career do, is ubiquitous. These women are following a path that has not turned out well for them and yet can't admit the failure hiding behind "high standards."
Real problem is hidden from view. The feminization of the academy has caused men to drop out or not even apply in increasing numbers. This mismatch, currently at 62% (for bachelor degrees), is creating the situation. Young men feel this pressure of defeat and internalize it. We, as a society have told everyone if you don't go to college you are a failure. Women and men have equally internalized this lie. And now we are seeing the results of the lie. Unintended consequences...............
Update on income by age. Found a site that has median income by age and 90th percentile.
Age 30 Median Income is $35K; 90th Percentile is $85K. Age 35 Median is $44K and 90th Percentile is $109K. Age 40 Median is $45K and 90th Percentile is $121K. After that there is only very small incremental increases. So at best, if a women was willing to date a 40 year old she has priced her way out of 85% of the market with that $100K limit. Also, the young man quoted is making way over median wages for his age at $55K.
Not to mention many of the best earners are already married.
Then if you filter more by height and fitness you get a REALLY small pool
Well! "Son, be an ad-dict!" (Sung to the tune of, Son Be A Den-tist, from Little Shop of Horrors.)
Many women love a fixer-upper. Addicts send infantile "Help me!" signals. Addicts also break boundaries and don't care, which allows the woman to feel, "It's not my fault I got..."
Son. Be an addict.
My man! Thanks for this! I’m looking for that expat life here shortly (would like to see if you’re done any work on this topic)
Agree with you here about the “not feminine.” I’d state that this is a result of 200 years ago when the feminist movement was orchestrated to get women into the workforce (decreasing their femininity and having them compete with men) all while billionaires can get rich by getting more workers and the govt tax more:
https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/donating-to-a-good-cause-how-billionaires
Ultimately, we need a balance of male and female energy.
Thanks for this comment man! Appreciate it!
PS: passports bros is nothing new. It actually started when American soldiers went to Vietnam and all came back with Vietnamese wives 😅
Well, actually it started before that. Probably with WW1. Definitely with WW2.
Well, the work I've done on it is live it... I've been living abroad for about a decade now.
Yeah I agree, the concept of the passport bro isn't new it's just the name that's new. Kind of catchy imo.
My former mother-in-law was an English war bride from WW2.
Come now! I KNOW the Romans brought many pretty young Slavs and made them into mothers.
And that fool Caliph in Istanbul, who brought back a gorgeous Russian blonde bombshell... she imprisoned her son to protect him, which drove him insane. Then she killed all the other heirs from the harem! And made herself the power behind the throne of Islam.
This has been going on for a long, long, time. Ha!
"In the reign of Marcus Aurelius, in 166 CE, a Roman ship sailed to the port of Cattigara, in what is now southern Vietnam." They were conducted to the Han emperor's court.
Want to bet some soldiers came back with brides?
I spent many years in SE Asia and am now glad to be back in the USA. There are major lifestyle variations, in particular we didn't want to raise kids there. Those are subjective though and people need to make their own choices. It was a fun place to be single, lots of people from all over the planet around.
This rings true.
The median income won't let you buy that tiny dump of an apartment. Rent it....maybe. With a roommate.
You make me suspect that what has happened to many Californians (and long-time Austinites in my neck of the woods), is actually happening to the entirety of the US.
My future in California was to work until I died, so I retired and moved to Middle Georgia. The people are friendlier and SEEM to be more tolerant of misfits.
Even though I lived in a prosperous city in SoCal, and had a reasonable mortgage payment, the HOA fees were destroying my budget. Even if I stayed I would soon be priced out by the extraneous fees. My solution was simple: Get OUT! I can't see how these young people can survive without parental help.
Plus Georgia is beautiful. Humid but beautiful. I am south of Austin and watching the desert encroach. It is so depressing. I may be heading your way soon.
Congrats Libs - you've created a generation of insecure, unmotivated feminized men. And you wonder why people such as Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson are garnering huge followings? There used to be plenty of men who lacked all the basic "qualifications" but were happily married to very nice women. "Problem" was, they were men who knew they were men and acted like men. Do the insecure, sad males with cats described in this article sound like men?
Of course, the question left unasked is "who would want to date the vapid, materialistic, narcissistic women described in the article?"
Libs have also created a bunch of women who have wasted their 20s and 30s striving to become the man they want to marry once they turn 40.
And that man, unsurprisingly, has no interest in marrying a 40 year old career woman who can't bear children.
Wow, truth bombs
You ended that thought perfectly. The real issue is that both sides have a date-ability problem. The men are not very 'manly' and the women not very 'womanly'. So neither side is willing to fight that hard to get the other.
I also think motivations have changed. Between women having the ability to live without needing a man to protect or finance them and men having avenues for their more carnal needs, there is just less motivation in general. Although deep down, I think both sides would be happier together, they don't have the tools to do it well. And the modern landscape makes the whole proposition much riskier.
Good comment. Neither gender is doing a good job of offering what the other really finds attractive. So many are just saying it’s not worth the effort
In the mean time men and women in the developing world, free from our first world problems and hangups, are reproducing like rabbits.
A massive EMP would set things back to the original order of life. I'm not saying that it would be GOOD, per se, but rather that it would demonstrate whose worth would be more sought after. Red in tooth and claw!
Do not conflate Andrew Tate with Jordan Peterson. Their messages are very different. Peterson says things like "clean up your room, get a job and work hard..." Andrew Tate's message is not that empowering.
Lot of BS here. You don't have to act like a man whatever that means. I've been married for 20 years, my wife also fixes the car and does the construction around the house. That doesn't make me less of a man, or her less of a women.
And people have always been insecure about dating. Its scary to put yourself out there.
I do think expectations have changed. People think they all deserve a top 1% man (or women) but most don't. Have a realistic view of your value as a partner and date appropriately.
Yeah, We need a dating app call "Average Jane & Joe", which targets people who are open to a wide range: women open to men who are 5'5" tall, men who are fine with a plump, average-looking girl.
ICBW but I think the act like a man thing is in reference to dating behavior and mating behavior.
"Congrats Libs"
Lol.
Geez, when did the free press comment section get so negative. Some optimism.
Look, a lot of these young men have grown up online, had boomer/gen X parents who raised them poorly and can now hardly take care of themselves, have no idea how to communicate with the opposite sex, let alone do the sex part, and simply bring little to the table for women as they’re distracted with their internet lives.
Women are stepping their ish up, men should too. We shouldn’t be lowering the bar because weak, lazy men can’t manage it. Put a copy of 12 rules for life in all these soft Peter Pan hands and pull yourself up to the level your desired mates are operating at. I did it and it worked for me—I built a career from nothing after starting in retail, I built a strong body from gamer-fat, I built a strong mind with reading + therapy, and took care of issues in myself and my life. If they could just clean their rooms they might eventually be able to take enough responsibility for their lives to land a date.
Sure the internet has fueled some unfair dynamics but certainly not all is lost.
edit: typos, boomers + gen x
I really appreciate this comment. We are doing young men an awful disservice by confirming the idea that they are somehow victims of social forces beyond their control. Social forces are beyond their control! But that doesn't make them victims. We should call men to a life of value, not commiserate with them about how hard and unfair things are. A young man who tackles life with courage and persistence turns himself into an eligible partner. Woman sense this quality in a man instinctively. The rest will take care of itself.
If you don't like who you are, change who you are. You are absolutely correct. Become who you can be and that will make all of the difference.
Oh my, I had a good laugh with this one. Complaining about negative comments then offering as a solution "... [they] had boomer parents who raised them poorly". I don't know what else you said because I stopped reading there.
I think you picked up on the lack of grace and humility. After all, if it is what worked for him, everyone else has the same problem. Right?
The problem I see with what you said is that the women upping their 'ish' doesn't benefit men a whole lot. They are not doing these things to attract men. They are doing it for themselves. So what you are saying is that men need to work harder to attract women that are putting next to no effort in attracting men. That doesn't seem like much of a compromise.
I kinda see the current arena as a catch 22. If men need to do better (especially financially) they will be competing against the very same people currently rejecting them. And how do you think the news/social media would react if there were a magical wave of young men taking over all of the good paying jobs? Those same men are already constantly blamed for every bad thing that happens to women. Especially when men are still needed for so many of the lower paying jobs that people don't want to do.
It is easy to make a simple "do better", similar to video gaming "Get gud". But this issue has many variables. Not the least of which is that young women have expectations that only a small % of men would be able to attain, no matter how many of them bust their butts to get it. The whole dating landscape seems screwed up, top to bottom. And our media landscape rarely makes the endeavor look good. Every woman is a girl boss and every man is evil and/or an idiot. This sets everyone up for failure.
More likely to have had Gen X parents, aren't they?
yeah good point, edited
I certainly agree that men need to do their part to be desirable and provide good value to potential mates.
That being said, the percent of men that are tall and make over 6 figures it always going to be VERY small.
Nah. It's all the fault of "the Liberals."
Society has changed too much over the decades. This dating scene is complicated. Just some observations. Men should always be learning something new and improving themselves for their own confidence and self worth. Get involved in activities where you meet quality people without sex being the primary desire and see what develops.
That's basically the same message Jordan Peterson has been telling men for the past decade, and he's vilified as a right wing nutjob. It's a strange world we're living in.
My grandma asked me about Jordan Peterson and I said he believes in personal responsibility, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, improving your life so people want to be around you.
And she said, oh well that used to just be common sense.
Yes, I still can’t believe that Peterson is regarded as a genius for his pronouncements, as though he has had this incredible novel revelation about life! It’s all just things that were completely obvious to most people not that long ago.
He is a great writer and thinker, a lot of us have the same “common sense” but can’t articulate it anywhere near as well as JP.
But I hear you, it’s sorta like “Idiocracy” when an average guy goes several hundred years into the dumb future and is the smartest guy on earth. “Stop putting Gatorade on the crops!” becomes an insight of incredible wisdom :D
How sad and disheartening for a generation far removed from mine. It feels as if we have a perfect storm of technical and sociological trends: remote work isolation, religious practice in decline, workplace relationship taboos, the tyranny of apps, real inflation, and misanthropic feminism, to name a few. Increasingly, the Luddite in me wants to jettison many of the trappings of our internet-addicted lives. I wonder if/how much circumstances would change with a return to a pre-smartphone era, where we actually speak instead of texting, pursue education rather than simply degrees, and meet each other in schools, workplaces and churches without the benefit of an online profile.
But I do love the conveniences: shopping, banking, reading online. What to do, what to do. It’s a puzzlement.
And friend circles seem to be smaller and fewer so a common way people met mates was "a friend introduced us." And now there are fewer friends to perform that service.
At our age I think we just ride with it! After all, we'll be gone in 20 years or less.😁
Boy, do I feel old 😂
As my grandfather brilliantly once said......"son, you get a lot cuter if you're standing on a pile of money" Just sayin......
Life is like a shit sandwich, the more bread you got the less shit you eat.
I suppose that could be part of the issue. Being broken down to essentially being a walking wallet doesn't exactly motivate someone to want to go out and get into a relationship.
LOL
Remote work and very few opportunities for social interaction have created quite the conundrum. People do not go to church either. We all recognize the problems but seem unwilling to address them. I fear the internet will lead us all to our demise alone and lonely.
We all love our technology and internet on the surface, but if it all went away tomorrow we might realize life just got a whole lot better.
Who are these women?!! Advice to young men: women worth knowing aren't on dating sites. Editorial comment: we're doomed.
There are lots of nice and normal women on dating sites. However, they aren't the ones showing T&A in their photos with tag lines about how you better be rich and hot and whatnot. As in many things in life, be discerning.
Yes, was waiting for someone to say this!
That’s quite a judgement you’re making over here. 12 years ago when I met my now husband on OkCupid, there were a number of women “worth knowing” on those dating sites. Maybe stay away from blanket judgements like that, because let me tell you, it’s the same as saying that all men on dating sites are creepy perverts who just want sex.
Dunno how old you are. I'm leery of response because my experience with the Great Game occurred when any viable partner's age would have precluded any but Biblical-grade reproduction. I very strongly suspect that, under a mutually-fertile regime, it's a real snake pit, for many reasons.
I don’t know wtf you’re saying here.
Sorry. Simply that dating sites probably look a whole lot different to a realistic 70+ then they do to the relevant population. Worked for me.
Hey, I resemble that remark.
Just kidding.
Fertility in the US is 1.6 and dropping. It needs to be a minimum of 2.1 just to stay even. And 1.6 isn’t bad: South Korea is 0.8. We can argue about the reasons but the undeniable reality is that modernity is failing.
I think that’s primarily due to the overwhelming lack of support for mothers who’d like to do both - raise children and have a career. I personally can’t imagine having a second child - how in the world to afford two kids in daycare? (That’s not the only reason for being one and done, but it’s a big one.)
I would argue, Zoikin, that low fertility rates are partially due to devaluing motherhood so that men and women don't recognize it as an important and noble undertaking. A man and a woman together can commit to raising a family, having a fulfilling life, and making a go of it financially. That is very different from each looking to find satisfaction and fulfillment in a career and hoping that the other parts of your life fall into place.
It sounds like you’re basically saying that women need to be satisfied just by taking care of their family and not trying to have a career. Am I reading your comment correctly? Are you advocating a return to “traditional” values of a working man and a stay at home mom?
Not exactly. I am saying that we are actively discouraging young women who would find raising a family to be a satisfying career (for the first part of their adult lives - it is very possible to raise a family and then have a different career. It does not work as well to focus until 40, let's say on your professional career and then find a good husband and have a family) from even considering that or knowing that it might be true for them. And we are discouraging men from valuing such women and recognizing that shouldering the economic burden is easier and more meaningful when you are doing it for a family. We have stopped presenting marriage as a partnership where the unit works together for everyone's benefit and instead we see individuals who think they can and must do everything themselves. This is a huge topic - which is why my husband and my book on it was just published. The Holistic You: Integrating Your Family, Finances, Faith, Friendships and Fitness.
I see what you’re saying, and of course there’s a lot of truth to that. Unfortunately though, because of a total lack of federal support for raising children, often one man’s single income is just not enough to raise children. I suspect that a number of women who’d prefer to take time out from jobs/careers simply can’t do so because their families can’t thrive on one source of income.
Where we would disagree is the role of the government. I think that they cause the damage that leads to it being more difficult to live on one income because or government out-of-control spending, inflation, regulation etc., etc. So making one more entitlement (day care) helps in the short run and is destructive in the long run. I don't have a brilliant answer on a large scale (I'm not running for office!) but I don't think we can fix things by continuing on the wrong road. However, my concern is for individual families and I think a lot of what is needed is an attitude adjustment as to what is really important in our lives.
watch out you do not want the state raising your children . Simple rule the state raises them they are children of the state not yours
I’m totally with you Zoikin! My husband and I are discussing when to have children now, and it’s a shockingly expensive proposition. Like you said, daycare is a huge one - if you can get it, there are often year plus waiting lists in even mid sized cities now, and I know a couple that paid for daycare for five months before their child was ready for it, just to reserve their spot.
And get it you must since the housing crisis has made housing so unaffordable. Rent for a two bedroom is well over $2k/month in most cities, mortgages often even more, and not everyone has jobs that can translate to rural areas. We’d love two or three kids, but will likely only have one due to housing. (And that’s with a household income of $130k.)
I’d love for either me or my husband to stay home the first five years (honestly he’d probably be better at it, I make more money and he’s always been more conscientious about the home), but that’s years of it being one income, of barely making enough just for rent and groceries, no extras at all like trips to the aquarium for the kid, no car, no security if the working person lost their job.
I would say it might have something to do with the assumption that fathers don't enter the equation.
I plan to have at least four, and I have no real idea how it's going to work but I intend to work when I can, stay home when needed, move somewhere affordable, and have my helpful husband by my side through all of it. If people wanted more kids they would do it, although I agree it's all about priorities.
😂 You should wait to make this comment until after you have at least one child.
I know right? Have one the way:) But I think it'll be okay. My sister has 5 kids btw, and she has a great fulfilling and flexible career that works. My other sister however was in school for the births of her first two and it was really hard for her. However, she is persisting and is getting her doctorate soon with a third on the way. It's not easy. But I have hopes.
4 kids here, I always tell people it’s not expensive because you stop spending money on going out and the other things childless people do to pass the time. I know people are different but the concept “I need to wait until I have enough money to have kids” doesn’t compute in my tiny brain.
Actually it's happening in every country even in countries with extremely generous safety nets (see the Nordic countries).
(edit) that's not to say I disagree that it's WAY too expensive to buy a house or start a family
Right, that’s true. But i think it’s at least worth it to try and make family life more affordable in this country.. IF population growth is a real concern.
I mean, the only fool proof way to raise fertility rates is to keep women out of education. Otherwise we realize that we can do something else with our lives besides just having babies. 🤷🏻♀️
Otherwise we realize we can do something else with our lives than JUST having BABIES-
And therein lies the problem.
There is one thing - ONE- that women can do and men cannot- bear children and feed their children. Period.
Modern society has continued to devalue that to the fullest. The evidence is in the children in the education system, in the political arena.
I chose to stay home when I could have finished law school (first gen blue collar family).
I choose to stay home to homeschool our “bonus baby” had at the age of 41 ( I had 3 before the age of 31).
I chose to drive a minivan to 262k; live in a “mixed” professional; socio economic neighborhood; cook most meals at home; not have the best phone; newest clothes or thousands of tv options.
But the legacy of our children- 6 total from our blended (yes we’re both previously divorced) brood- THAT legacy of raising humans to be productive members of society- is priceless. And at 50; I can look back and know it was better than any corporate job and more fulfilling emotionally and spiritually than any bonus; raise, promotion would have ever provided.
We’ve had (and continue to have) ups and downs and problems and issues and disappointments and even regrets.
There are choices we make. Things have not been easy. But I can say NOW with kids ranging between 9 and 24- I would do it all again.
The issue is choice. In what we value, in how we spend money, in how hard we work, and saying NO to the masses.
The generation is alone because they choose to be alone- and fill their lives with nothing. They’ve been taught that discomfort isn’t ok; and if that is your main focus then life will be lonely, sad and quite boring.
We can only learn by doing and failing. We can only have love by being with other people- not a title, car, vacation or bank acct.
Man, you’re so binary saying that only women can have babies. What about all those trans men and non binary people?!
Just kidding.
I would LOVE for men to be able to have children. I don’t see though how the fact that only women can have kids means that every woman MUST have one. It’s not the Middle Ages. There are enough people in the world. Women shouldn’t be made to feel guilty if they don’t want to have kids or if they want to choose to focus on other endeavors first.
Personally I worked for my career from the age of 5. (I’m a professional classical musician.) Five years is a very long time to be out of work for me, it would mean an end to a career that took many years, and a whole lot of blood, sweat, and tears to build. It wasn’t an option.
Personally I think the country is overpopulated. But I also think if it is a problem that the government cannot fix it. We as a people have got to move beyond the notion of government fixes for what ails us. It is a failure and has the nation $32,850,000,000,000 in debt and the US dollar worth a fraction of what it once was. The biggest reason population is an issue is because the social security system needs new payers to keep up the old payees.
Don't need to raise fertility rates. At the rate people are entering the country, that problem has solved itself.
Fertility rates are dropping across the world. As countries develop, fertility rates dropped. There is not ONE developed country with positive fertility.
Long term immigration can't be an answer.
Immigration is the answer in the US. That is why China is screwed.
I really hope this is sarcasm.
It is and it is not. We are talking about replacement population. Countries that people want to move to can use immigration for this. It just needs to be controlled immigration. That is why China will collapse. Almost nobody wants to move there.
True, but thankfully people still want to immigrate to the US.
Real helpful. What percentage of those who arrive here have any desire to be Americans?
It doesn’t really matter. If they stay long enough, they or their children will be Americans.
I doubt everyone will agree with me, but I think anyone who has enough grit to come to the US and try to be successful is likely to be a good citizen. Many people who are born citizens here don’t appreciate it as much as they will.
The US will look very different in 100 years, but it also looked very different 100 years ago. We are still a melting pot, but that is a strength not a weakness.
Impossible to answer that question.
Oh, c'mon. I would take a lot of convincing that it breaks single digits. You?
I have no way of knowing. Are there statistics available? Then there's the question of what do you mean by "be Americans?" I come from a family of immigrants who all became American citizens.
Then you do know what he means.
That is a very long, involved, and expensive process, with no guarantee of success.
You mean wading across the river? Hell re-entering the country from Canada was more arduous than migrating at the southern border.
I really hope that is sarcasm.
It's interesting to look at declining testosterone levels, as well as sperm counts. I agree that declining reproduction rates are a problem
I have read about the testosterone and supermarket counts. Yikes.
“But I can’t even get my foot in the door. And if they don’t talk to me, what can I do?”
Accept that the world is unfair. Improve yourself 1% every day. Be your biggest support pillar.
Everything else follows.
This is good advice for an individual, but 6/10 men in their 20s with no girlfriend/partner is a societal problem. If they weren't sedated by pornography/AI girlfriends/girlfriends for profit and intimidated by HR/the government, society would crumble. Why do these guys bother working at all?
Altruism, I imagine.
Or maybe just habit.
Apparently they are dropping out in droves. I agree it is a societal issue
Jimmy Buffet (RIP) song:
I got in town a month ago, I seen a lotta girls since then
If I could meet 'em I could get 'em but as yet I haven't met 'em
That's why I'm in the shape I'm in
Althiugh he did not write that one, he is the poet of our time I think. I rue his loss.
That was actually Sam Cooke.